 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-01-21 12:34
Hi,
I have been on the lookout for good used clarinets for two of my granddaugters who will need them in the near future. As a former HS band director for many years, I know that while not the greatest clarinet that ever came off the assembly line, a resonite Bundy clarinet with a decent MP is pretty much a bullet-proof beginner/student instrument that can provide decent as well as relaible service for several years.
My original plan was to pick up a couple of Bundys with the hope that after replacing a few pads and/or corks (I am a careful worker with a good track record for minor repairs and adjustments), I would have something that is serviceable and inexpensive. In the last two weeks I acquired two Bundy student clarinets on eBay for the total price of a couple of boxes of reeds. Both are fine and all they needed was a little tweaking and cleaning and they play just like a Bundy clarinet should play. I'd suspect the age to be 20 years old at least and they have probably been in a closet for the last several years.
I have a couple of questions. Have these clarinets become so undesireable that I have virtually stolen them? Or, have used Bundy clarinets become not worth fixing up.
I have read so many horror stories on this BB about unsuspecting parents going to music stores and coming away with instruments that did not perform. Or, sad tales of buying a new CSO (Clarinet Shaped Object) for $150 and ending up with a nightmare. Could not a re-conditioned Bundy provide an viable alternative or does the repad or overhaul price make such an instrument no real bargin?
In my case, I got away really cheap and granddaughters Molly and Zoey will be delighted.
HRL
PS I have a BB friend that has several Vito clarinets in his basement. He says it is some sort of investment.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-01-21 12:51
In my experience, it's the parents that suffer in this situation. Instrument drives are major sources of income for music stores, and the largest block of people in the market for instruments are parents of beginning band students. Most of these parents are novices - uninformed about instrument quality and availability. They often bite the bullet and accept the instruments presented at the band drives because they know the director at least approves of the instruments and they should be in "new" condition.
Nothing galls me more than seeing parents pay full price for beginner instruments.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-21 13:09
That BB friend has probably made other investments that didn't pay off as well as he is certain the Vitos will.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-21 13:14
Hank....were those the Al Bundy models that came with shoe horns?
Bob Draznik
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-21 14:06
Hank.. Like you, I also picked up a used clarinet, a Vito V40, on eBay for the approximate cost of a box of reeds. It too, only needed minor adjustments (tenon corks, two pads) to make it play perfectly. Cosmetically, it is not "shiny new" but will give a beginner a good starting instrument.
I will keep it in my studio as an emergency clarinet for when a student comes in for their lesson and their own clarinet is not in playable condition.
The prices of used Bundy, Vito and other beginner clarinets seem to be at an all time low.
However, trying to convince parents (and students) to look at these instruments, rather than the new CSO's sold in the major retailers (or on the web) are another story...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-21 14:15
There used to be an old ad from the 50's that had 4 Bundy's standing up with a car resting it's tires on top of them.
Hmm, maybe the clarinets were in the wrong position? 
Seriously though, they should be just fine. Shouldn't cost very much to get them playing and fine for a starting player.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-21 14:26
I am a Bundy fan since the 40,s and without getting into the history if Im not mistaken Selmer is the new Bundy. Besides my Buffet I have a selmer resonite that I bought in 95. My grandaughter enjoys playing it when she is not playing her flute and its a good spare for me. I think its as good a student model as any. A Bundy has always had a good reputation but just like other brands we dont see the name as much since the bundy name is now Selmer but it is supposed to have the same quality. There are other student model brands that are becomming popular. I am a Bundy/Selmer fan from way back. IMO Bundys are well worth fixing just like any other well made clarinet and there is something unique about owning an orriginal Bundy. Your grandaughters will be lucky to own a Bundy.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-01-21 15:32
I noticed, too, the rock bottom Bundy prices recently on eBay, Hank. Had I been in the market for some horns I would've snatched up a few of 'em. Very good beginner horns, backup horns, and even (in my case) good all around players. I've lost count of the Bundys and Vitos I've overhauled and sold on consignment and in the last five years I've only had one return/exchange and that was for an old wood Bundy that developed a crack. If you're at all "handy", and you certainly are from what you say, you can for a small investment have a very good instrument that will hold up for many years to come.
I wouldn't exactly call them good investments from a monetary point of view but from a player's point of view, Bundys and Vitos seem to just keep going and going and going....
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-01-21 22:14
Supply and demand.
In the 40s, 50s, 60s, etc. almost everyone started on one, then moved up to something better if they kept at it.
Zillions of them gathering dust.
List prices 1955 - Bundy $135, Selmer Signet Special $200.
They are OK, but every attic has one, so the price stays low.
Post Edited (2005-01-21 22:16)
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Author: ClarinetColt
Date: 2019-10-11 22:42
When I met my (now) husband in 1997 I was a Sax player and he still had his Bundy from when he learnt to play in school. I decided to try playing it after some 15+ years in it's case and I quickly got the Clarinet bug, so much so that I sold my Sax and bought a Buffet B12. We still have the Bundy and it has great sentimentality now. You never know, I may get to pass it onto my grandchildren one day.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2019-10-12 01:11
Remembering the delight and inspiration I felt at getting a brand-new Noblet in 1958 (still have it, by the way), I can tell you that there's something special about having a brand-new shiny instrument, and that's probably one reason the CSOs sell and the Bundys don't, or don't for very much money--parents probably figure, if I hand my kid a beat-up old horn, he/she won't take it seriously, whereas a shiny NEW one -- ??!!
A lot of this depends on parental ignorance about shiny new crap versus quality but inexpensive used. If it would cost $200 to get an old Bundy playable (which is what it cost me to get a $175 Bundy e-flat working right) plus a certain amount of haz-matting to get the decades of bad hygiene scrubbed off it (which can be a considerable disincentive to buy a student horn that old), the calculation to buy a CSO almost makes sense. Add to that a decrepit case that looks tatty and probably smells (and may, like my Eb case, have generations-old Strawberry Shortcake friendship stickers plastered all over it), and purchase of a CSO almost makes sense (again, in an ignorant sort of way).
Which leaves them for us, to purchase ultra-cheap for backup horns, or outdoor horns, or (in my case) low-rent entree into the world of Eb playing.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-10-12 01:36
Since Hank's original post (and most of this thread) is from 2005, it would be interesting to know how this worked out for his granddaughters.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-10-12 02:46
This is what I think about plastic clarinets that are regarded as disposable.
Yes you can buy an old Bundy or similar level and quality clarinet for next to nothing. How much would a similar clarinet cost you to buy brand new?
Is it worth spending money on repairing an old Bundy if it only cost you next to nothing? If you solely base your reckoning on what it cost you, then you need to think again if the instrument is in need of repair as things like pads and corks are consumables and this is the case with ALL clarinets.
Base your judgement on the value of a brand new equivalent model clarinet as opposed to how little you paid for it and then weigh up the cost of a full overhaul or a brand new clarinet and work out which is the better option.
A brand new plastic clarinet is only going to be finished to a standard to get it out the factory and into the shops and will have received minimal bench time when finished, so it'll be far from perfect even when bought brand new.
A fully reconditioned (overhauled) one will have all brand new pads, tenon corks and key corks/felts and if done by a woodwind specialist, it should be finished to a far higher standard compared to a factory finished one and could also put many pro level clarinets to shame considering a lot of pro level clarinets from some big name makers are finished like crap, yet still command high end prices for shoddy workmanship.
The same applies across the board - don't confuse purchase price with value and don't bin off something that could have decades of playing life left as plastic clarinets will go on forever unless they get irreparably damaged and replacement or donor parts can't be sourced.
We live in a throwaway society and well made beginner level plastic clarinets aren't cheap toys found in Christmas crackers and landfill a week later, they're musical instruments which will give anyone with a passion to learn the start of their career or a lifetime of enjoyment depending what path music takes them on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2019-10-12 04:26
Hi Karl,
Thanks for inquiring about the clarinets for granddaughters Zoey and Erin. Zoey is now in graduate school in speech pathology. Erin graduated as well and is working in Cleveland. Both of their degrees were with Honors.
Flash back to 2005. Both girls started on the used Bundy clarinets (I upgraded the mouthpieces from my arsenal) and were ready for step-ups very quickly. I picked up two NOS Ridenour 147 clarinets and they played for a couple of years and did very well. By the time they reached high school though, both were going down a track for cheerleading which they did into their college days.
When I was a band director for a few decades way back when, I always started students on either Bundy, Vito, or Evette resonite clarinets. I can't remember a bad experience that any student had with these instruments. As far as the 147s the granddaughters had, they found new homes with a couple of friends' kids for band. Both instruments held up beautifully and are being appreciated still.
HRL
Post Edited (2019-10-14 19:21)
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Author: ClarinetColt
Date: 2019-10-12 11:18
Thank you for the update Hank. I think it is my fault I posted on such an old thread but hadn't sspotted the date. I had Googled Bundy Clarinet as I was interested in their second hand price and this thread popped up in the search results.
The musical seeds have been sown to your lovely grandchildren and they may return to playing oneday soon.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-10-12 19:08
Attachment: buescheraristocrat.jpg (29k)
Attached is a photo of a 1970s Buescher Aristocrat which the owner has had from new and he still plays to this day. As well as having sentimental value, it is a well built and therefore no reason to bin it off as there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
I fully overhauled it in early 2016 to the same standard I'd overhaul a pro level clarinet as there's no reason why anyone should let their standards drop regardless of the age and level of the instrument if the customer is paying you to do that amount of work.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-10-13 01:00
The Bundy altos (must've been produced for decades) are a particulary good example of a "plastic" horn worth restoring. Given how man mediocre altos there are out there - and this is especially interesting for me - and how this single-register-vent instrument can be restored to have a pretty smooth key action, so you can actually play more difficult pieces for concert band, I think it's a real treasure. You can get one for 200$ and turn it into a great horn.
Granted, the price of restoration will be, I suppose, something like 600$ toget it to a decent level. But since I can do it myself (in fact, restored one recently), I'm seriously considering getting one, despite having an 1950s Selmer at my disposal. Just can't get it to decent altissimo, unlike the bundy, plus it's sloppy thanks to a complicated double register mecahnism, without better intonation!!
So yeah, the answer is pretty clear. Good horns are worth restoring. As Chris P outlined, their value is what matters, and here, people often confuse wooden bodies and a shiny polish with a good instrument. Plus, we all know how Buffet group horns are often poorly set up. Register keys on some Schreibers - spring tension beyond good and evil; Bladder pads on 2000s Buffets - complete crap; Nylon pins, too much play in the pivots... etc., despite Buffets having agood "substance"
The Prodige (540€ at Thoman, WOW) is a pretty great horn and has good pads, nice silver plating and great keywork, it'd certainly beat many older Bundys, even when they're restored. At least in my opinion.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2019-10-13 18:51
I'm entirely with Chris P on this. I have restored a fair number of student-level plastic clarinets, mostly Vito's, Yamahas and Bundy's. I restore them to the highest standard I can, and they find their way into the local school system. I see no reason for a student to have to play on an instrument which is not performing to its maximum.
Tony F.
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