 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jthole
Date: 2018-07-03 13:44
For the past two years, I have used a Selmer Concept Bb clarinet mouthpiece, and it could easily be the best factory made mouthpiece I have tried. I like it much better than the Vandoren pieces I have used in the past, and it also works better for me than the Selmer Focus (or older Selmer pieces).
If you tried it, and didn't like it, what were the reasons? And if you use it, what reeds work well for you with it? I mainly use Vandoren Traditional 3 on it, but the V12's work as well.
For the record, I think the Concept is a great match with my Buffets ... and I am just an amateur player, not a professional, so take my opinion with a grain of salt ;-)
Post Edited (2018-07-03 13:51)
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-07-03 18:59
I have one and think it’s great. It’s definetly my second favorite mouthpiece. I played it for a while with a 4 1/2 aria reed. (They run really soft). I also had great results with a 3 1/2 v12 and a 3 3/4 European cut legere. In fact, the legere I think worked better than any of the cane reeds.
That being said, I’ve since gone back to my vandoren B40 13. It just seems to work the best for me. The concept seems just a bit more spread than the b40. I will say my favorite thing about the concept is how crystal clear and easy the altissimo plays. The sound just isn’t as focused and rich as my b40 13 though. At least for me.
I will also say it’s better than any OTHER vandoren mouthpiece I’ve tried. And I’ve tried them all!
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-03 20:06
They are my second favorite as well. I had mine adjusted by Bob Bernardo so it plays even better, but it is probably still one of the best factory-made mouthpieces. I use it with Legere reeds, strength 4.25
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: anonrob
Date: 2018-07-04 01:08
I have been playing one for the last month or so and really like it. Usually Blue Box 3, maybe Rue Lepic 3.5, Legere 3, I think-the sticker fell off.
I think it is the most stable mouthpiece I have played above D6
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Author: jthole
Date: 2018-07-04 11:51
Yes, I feel the same about the altissimo register. Very easy and stable with the Concept. Also I like the evenness between the registers very much.
I don't know how consistent they are; when I bought it (sometime in 2016) the shop only had one in stock, and I liked it enough to buy it. I haven't tried other Concept mouthpieces in the meantime. I'm very happy with the one I have.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2018-07-04 19:03
Thought I would rattle along with some thoughts on the Concept..I like the fact this is not stuffy or as stuffy as the BD5 vandoren..also it has the best jump in the sound in the market for a lower priced facing. Add to this the covered overtone series and I think the concept while maybe a bit wide in terms of tonal shape..it can be made to be focused and centered with good embouchure adjustment.
The extreme register is very nice and this is why it is a good value...all notes across the instrument play with ease and vibrancy...this is important. Projection is much better than I expect for a mouthpiece like this with such wide rails. The tuning is a bit high but not so much as to detract from pulling out effectively...so what does this mean. Well..the market right now is flooded with loads of Vandys etc..this to me is closer to an m30 without all the strange quirks of the m30 series vandys..this is a good mouthpiece....it also matches well with legere euro and here is wonder maybe it is optimized in this regard as the euros really sing nicely here. I have played alot of concerts on the concept and think this is excellent in all forms of music too
David Dow
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-07-04 20:16
David, I know you are a fan of the vandoren B40. Has the concept become your main mouthpiece? I played a few concerts with the concept but have since switched back to my b40 13.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2018-07-05 00:23
My nephew was gifted a Selmer Focus. It sounds great. One big problem... the rails are so wide that it is way too resistant. It requires a 1.5 reed in order to play easily. For now he is using my Rico X5. Would be great to really see what a properly finished Selmer would play like.
AAAClarinet
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2018-07-05 04:24
Question for David - I play a small bore clarinet (Recital). Is the Concept a plausible match for a small bore instrument ?
Ralph
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-05 23:50
I first played the Concept mouthpiece last August. It's a really nice mouthpiece for the money. The Concept mouthpiece can be so much better if worked on. As it stands now it's an above average mouthpiece with great potential. The rubber is a bit soft. The rails need work, it's better than anything that Vandoren puts out as far as tuning, pitch, and sound. But it needs to be worked on. Email me if interested in advice. Your common mouthpiece refacer doesn't know the trick to get these playing almost as good as the old Chedevilles and Kaspars. A secret I'm not prepared to give out yet. I'd like to make a deal with Selmer first. The sound can carry really well unlike most dead Zinner's which thankfully are out of business.
Someone asked me to buy some and they would send them to Selmer after I fix them up. That's too much of a gamble. If Selmer is reading any of these posts I'll show them how to make these play great in just a few minutes.
As for the bore, it is somewhat large and it should fit their Reciital clarinet well. I'm not a fan of the Reciital clarinet as it stands. But I think the mouthpiece would add some LIFE to a slightly too dark sounding clarinet.
An issue I've seen with the Concept mouthpieces that come through the shop here is they are inconsistent. This is because of the rubber being soft. Some can be fixed in just a few minutes, others take 30 minutes to get them to play great. However, the best part of these is the design in general. They can play really well
Ray got one of the really good ones. It's live and projects well. Sorry I don't recall the tip opening. It was around 1.07 I think.
I don't like the Focus mouthpieces nor the Rico mouthpieces. They are too tight, bores are too small, often too resistant. The bores alone will cause dead notes on your horns and out of tune notes. Yes I know people will write and say they don't have issues! Great! Keep playing on them. I'm happy for you.
But the question was about the Concept mouthpiece which I feel is perhaps the best mouthpiece on the market for the price if you have it worked on.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-07-05 23:53)
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-06 08:30
Yes Bob, the Concept I sent to you originally had a very wide tip opening, but you helped me close it down to around 1.07. Before it was stuffy and resistant, but now its awesome. I still have to say the extreme altissimo on the Concept is simply amazing, I'm not sure why. But I find I squeak just a bit more on them as well on the not-so-high notes.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2018-07-07 22:10
I switched to the concept all playing purposes.
.i use euro singature 3.5 and the 3.5plus size as well..I like a resistant mouthpiece..so for me making it less resistant will not be good. Unlike the BDfive it is not flattish and in many ways freeblowing. Do not find the sound broad but rather more subject to throat voicing because of how easy it works...I use cane as well but have stopped on the cane side of thing for now after battling my way through 2 boxes of v21 reeds that won t work here in the climate i am in. Right now the eastern seaboard so to speak in in the middle of a heat wave and frankly am tired of tweaking reeds etc. I used the concept today on the Martinu sonatina and it has a big sound with great upper notes.
The Concept is much closer to a M30 in my feeling..oh hate to dredge that one up but to me that is a fine offering from Vandoren..the B40 is excellent but have not have much luck replacing the one I used for 10 years in the mid 90s...the Focus was much more smaller in tone shape..I would hasten to add one thing..the Concept needs to be practiced on to get used to..I mean seriously sit down and play on it for a time.to me it is like a very good Viotto facing..it has enormous control etc. The focus was just too closed for me and somewhat lacking in bite.I use CSG clarinets which are small bore so I think the match with a small bore concept produces a great vibrant tone. It is also nice to pull out after playing so low on vandorens!
I find the v12 reeds work much better on the concept than the v21 reeds.
David Dow
Post Edited (2018-07-07 22:12)
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2019-10-01 00:32
David,
I have played CSGs for 13 years now and currently play mostly Backun mouthpieces (Arabesque and Kessler/Backun III) and occasionally a Fobes Europa 4. While these are more open than the Concept, I'm curious how they would feel/perform on my CSGs. Currently, I'm playing Pilgerstorfer Dolce 4 reeds and have a couple Legere Euro 3.5 reeds as backup. It would be great if the Concept played similar reeds with good sound and resistance.
What are your thoughts?
Also, it seems like these are difficult to find in the US. You can order them (and other French products) but they are then on back-order for months!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-10-03 06:17
Ray, I don't know. I remember you playing a shade on the flat side so maybe it is an embouchure issue. Biting to gain pitch or hit the notes? This is of course wrong. I really have no idea unless you can send a video of you playing, then I can maybe see whats going on again. Lets's get rid of annoying squeaks in the high registers. By the way when I made the move away from Buffet to Yamaha playing pieces like the Copland and Spohr Concertos was much easier to attack these high notes and you have to have a light but firm embouchure of course. The minute you bite to hit the upper notes you are dead. If your lips hurt you are biting. I like to tell players to practice violin music because of the high notes and as we all know not too much is written for the clarinet, but it's endless for violins. Work on this for maybe a year or so. Cheers! Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2020-02-28 23:13)
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2019-10-04 10:36
I've been on the Concepts for a little while now and am quite happy with them. I picked one up on a whim when I ordered a Concept bass mouthpiece from Thomann (cheaper to have it shipped from Germany to California than to pay what US retailers seem to have to sell them for). I ended up not liking the bass mouthpiece, but the soprano mouthpiece had a nice, clear tone that really spoke to me.
The one I got was very resistant and I played it with a Blue Box 2.5. Once I paired it with the softer reed, I really started to hear and feel the potential there. It had a tone that was a bit "broader" than I might have wanted, but there was fantastic definition in the sound. I find some mouthpieces tend to be too dark for me and end up feeling a bit "woolly" around the edges for the way I like to play and sound. The concept kept a nice clarity throughout the range of the instrument that really appealed to me while inhabiting a nice middle-of-the-road position on the dark/bright continuum.
I saw Bob talking on this BBoard about the adjustments he makes to these and was interested, so I ordered another Concept with intention of sending it to him. That one was pretty different from the first one. I don't have tools to measure, but I would speculate that it had a smaller tip opening, since it played nicely with a V12 3 or a Legere Euro Sig 3.25, which gave the sound a bit more focus. I felt like that one had a better resistance for me than the first, so I sent the first to Bob to adjust.
According to the little note Bob included when he sent it back to me, he closed the tip of that one down to 1.10 mm (which is what it was supposed to be out of the box), thinned the rails, adjusted the baffle, cleaned up the facing and made some other little tweaks (can't find the note right now). Apparently the more resistant one was much too open.
Playing that one against the second Concept I bought, the Bob-improved mouthpiece has a bit more focus to the sound without losing the clarity or getting harsh or overly bright or swinging too far the other way and getting soft and overly dark. I'm pretty impressed and I might send my backup Concept to Bob soon.
I have no intention of putting any other mouthpiece manufacturer down, but I think I can buy two of these Concepts, have both refaced by Bob Bernardo and still have spent less or about the same on a mouthpiece and a good backup as I would have spent on some of the nicer boutique mouthpieces on the market, including some that I've purchased and enjoyed.
But if you're buying one, I'd advise trying a few. The two I got were drastically different from one another, though neither played badly, to be fair.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-10-09 20:59
Bob: I know Jérôme Selmer, CEO of Selmer, and I should think he would be interested in your suggestions. It's only natural that you should receive some kind of financial compensation for this. Companies love have people work for them for free! You can get in touch with me at my e-mail address.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-10-10 11:26
I'd love to chat with him Ruben. I'll send send some info. Thanks very kind of you. This is a great Bboard, helping the clarinet word get even better.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-02-18 20:02
Bob, Ruben- just wondering if any conversations happened with Jerome Selmer and what may have come of them. I'm thinking about investing in one of these- have read above that they can vary considerably between pieces- but wondering if a version 2.0 would be coming out and better to wait for that
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-18 21:28
I was ignored. No response. Just like most places/companies, they just don't want to hear from outsiders. Can't blame them actually...
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-02-18 23:47
ACCA: I think Selmer is going through a peiod of turmoil: was bought up by an investment fund and may be bought up again.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-02-19 00:39
Hey Ruben! Thanks for the interesting post. Is this Selmer world, the US, or France?
Heard something too about LeBlanc too. Just rumors or are they gone? I know they are part of Selmer. Wonder if Bliss is gone from LeBlanc?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2020-02-28 23:15)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-02-19 11:32
Hi Bob: Selmer-Paris (Henri) and Selmer US are different companies, the one in in the US being much bigger and more powerful and not producing professional-level wind instruments. The Selmer company in Paris was a family concern, but bought up a couple of years ago by an investment fund! the same one that bought up Buffet about 15 years ago. This is probably with a view to selling it off at a profit a few years later. That's usually how they operate. The Selmer family had no choice but to accept the offer from the investment fund. It was that or being bought up by the Chinese or Japanese or possibly by Buffet. None of these options wre agreable to the family, understandably.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: jack
Date: 2020-02-19 12:49
Hi Ruben,
You comment: "The Selmer family had no choice but to accept the offer from the investment fund". Was the company in some sort of trouble - financial or otherwise?
Was this transaction a good thing for the company? Buffet seems to be doing fine (just a guess) following the acquisition by an "investment fund". And Backun was acquired by another company a couple or so years ago, yet seem to be doing well.
Just wondering.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-02-19 14:40
so sorry to hear about the Selmer family having to sell. all this business of buy-outs and investement firm operations and profits fixation in the musical instrument world is very depressing. luckily guitarists still have the option of a professional level instrument from an artisanal luthier without having to sell their house; can the same be said for wind instruments ? or is this again apples against oranges? the equipment needed for metal working being more costly than for wood ? sorry , this has gotten OT but there it is
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-02-19 18:18
Jack: Selmer produced/ produces clarinets (and saxophones, of course) that are just as good as Buffet's, but Buffet seemed to produce more with fewer workers and to be more dynamic commercially. In family concerns, the shareholders eventually tire of a lack of dividends and want the immediate gratification that selling the firm brings. Companies have disappeared: namely Leblanc, which failed to modernize and adopt the "flavor of the day."
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-02-20 04:45
On the brighter side, we have a plethora of small companies with a few employess and a CNC machine who can crank out enough business for the limited number of customers they attract:
Rossi
Gerold
Chadash
Backun
to name a few.
Acoustic instrument makers will never be the same force they once were when EVERY living room had to have a piano.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-02-24 17:27
Thanks for the posts everyone. I hope to get my hands on a Concept MP this year while I can- who knows how long they will even stay in production. Long live good music, and firms committed to producing quality instruments to make good music!
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-05-21 16:19
I have now taken the plunge and invested in one of these. I can echo the thoughts of others who have said this is the best factory MP they have got their hands on- not that I have ever been able to play anything not factory made! But I've tried most Vandorens, leblanc/woodwind co, and Selmers including C85. This tops them all. I always had trouble playing flat with Vandorens, this mouthpiece tunes better than anything else I've played. Altissimo pops out excellently, response is excellent, resistance is just right. Really this is the best it gets at this price point- at least here in the UK where this can be obtained for a few quid less than the Vandoren range.
These are very reed friendly- tried it with forestones, legeres, V21's and vandoren traditionals- all in the 3-1/2 strength range or thereabouts, and it perfomed more than adequately for all. My go-to reeds currently are Pilgerstorfer- Orchestra and Morre cuts- 3 1/2 and I think I'll stick with this setup for now as it's giving me the best results ever.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-21 16:46
Dear Bob,
Did you ever get in touch with Jerôme Selmer, CEO of Selmer? I'm not sure he's still CEO-some talk of the company being taken over again. The lockdown certainly won't be doing the company any good. I fear for it's future. I haven't seen Mr. Selmer for a couple of years.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-05-22 19:47
Hi Ruben! Thanks for writing. The answer is no. I don't have an email address nor a phone number to contact him. Generally when I've written in the past to companies, Buffet, Legere, just to name 2, I got completely ignored. lol I'm sure the reasons are simple - Companies and people don't like change and they also strongly feel their products are already the best. They don't want outside peoples opinions.
If I had an EXACT address to contact him I would perhaps try. Or better yet, a person that knows the owners to help out in a positive way. Another example is the Steuer reed company. Great cane, but there are no musicians there to keep an eye out and make sure the reeds measure correctly. After getting a lot of bad unplayable reeds I stopped importing them about 2 years ago. I was losing a lot of money trying to make the USA players happy. The owner is a great guy. But he didn't want any advice. I even offered to fly to France and help. I think I owe him about $3500, but he refused to fix issues with past unhappy players and pay me for the free reeds I gave to HIS clients. Plus I have about 200 boxes of unplayable reeds sitting in my office. He wouldn't take these back. But in the owners eyes his reeds are perfect. Again, he's a great guy, but it's something that didn't work out. Most companies don't want to hear that their products aren't as good as they can be. I won't say his name at Steuer, but I truly tried to help. It's interesting that the German reeds always measure fine, but not the French reeds. I tried to help...
A while ago, 4 years maybe, I was at a convention and I was messing around at Backun's booth. One of the clarinets had a bad key stuck in the wrong position, frozen. I showed it to him the problem, to help, and he took the horn and put it in the back storage room. After that he never talked to me. I was just trying to help! He freaked out! Morrie, if you read this, I was just trying to help you! This was at the NAMM Convention a few years ago.
It's often best to not say anything.
Thanks for writing Ruben. You can always email me if needed. Cheers! Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Mark Charette ★2017
Date: 2020-05-22 20:08
Bob Bernardo wrote:
>
I do software for a living. If I were demonstrating my software at a convention and someone told me that they were really good and could make my software a lot better I'd say "Thank you for your valued input" and ignore them thereafter.
Wrong place, wrong time. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. Invite me to a lunch or dinner maybe. And perhaps I'll listen to you. Unsolicited advice is most often unwelcome.
If you're really good you'll email me and offer your services for a reasonable price. "Free" services never are.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-05-22 22:18
Thank you Mark. This is surely excellent. Well done - as usual!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2021-02-28 23:16
Hello, this time I'm thinking upgrading to a new mouthpiece(coming from BD5, playing v12 3.5 reeds). I have to mention I'm not able to try in a store cause of Covid situation and I'm between getting to a Selmer Concept or a Backun Vocalise G or continue with same design(BD4 or BD7). Maybe other BD openings are better?? What would you recommend? I'm not satisfied with the articulation of BD5, It has a pretty beautiful dark legato and that's It, all other things are kinda difficult to make. I have one whole year playing It and I think It's time to change to something else..
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Author: rootowsky
Date: 2021-03-04 11:40
You should add a Playnick Puccini Tosca to this list.
Selmer's concept would be the most similar but I personally didn't like the feel of it.
BD4 has exceptionally better articulation but it feels very closed compared to BD5 and I could not play it comfortably. (Despite more open tip).
BD7 requires a lot more control to make it work. It is a very specific mouthpiece and it requires a lot of experience and skill to make it play well.
I haven't played or heard any opinion about Vocalise. Maybe someone else could speak for it.
I am in a similar situation and I am slowly moving into ordering Puccini Tosca to try it.
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