 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: judorange
Date: 2019-10-03 00:34
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. I'm not (yet!) a clarinet player (more piano and some bassoon) but I would love to start on bass clarinet. I'm currently living in the US, and I might be moving back to Europe in the next year so.
I'm looking around for bass clarinet on the US market, and I'm really considering buying one made of grenadilla wood (Buffet brand). And just recently, I came to discover all that CITES convention thing restricting movements of grenadilla/rosewood made goods, including musical instruments. I read that traveling for performance purposes should not be an issue, but no mention is made regarding moving. The day I move back to Europe for good, am I in for some troubles? If ever, would it help that the clarinet was made in Europe and just "returns" to Europe?
Thank you for your insights.
J.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-10-03 16:52
Regulations just eased up for musical instruments. I don't know the exact details.
Steve Ocone
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-10-03 19:53
Wouldn't it be better just to buy it in Europe? It would be cheaper and you would have a greater choice.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2019-10-03 20:14
Your post and your admitted status as a beginning player begs the question "Why grenadilla"?
Have you thought about other options, or have you been convinced by others that blackwood is the "best" and the only way to go?
There are other perfectly fine, equally good alternatives, especially hard rubber, that won't deplete blackwood sources.
B.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-10-04 01:41
Traveling with instruments for personal use is exempt from CITES restrictions, at least up to a given weight, but I second Ruben, unless you need to hit the ground running with bass when you get there.
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Author: judorange
Date: 2019-10-05 15:31
Thank you for your answers. Especially, I wasn't aware that the regulation recently eased up!
Why not buy when I'm in Europe? The thing is, I won't be moving before a year or maybe more, and you know, you only live once. There are already too many decisions that I postponed because I was supposed to move back to Europe "soon", but ended up staying 10 years in the US...
Post Edited (2019-10-05 15:32)
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Author: judorange
Date: 2019-10-05 16:09
For the choice of bass clarinet, I may be "prejudiced" against non wood material as Ridenour wrote, but it would seem the whole industry is as well.
I was open to new materials but systematically, plastic/hard rubber clarinet would almost always come with a number of "student" features: lowest note low Eb (*) , single register vent, heavy or fragile mechanism, bad padding, leaks, wearing plating, and other corner cutting practices (based on reviews on the web).
For instance, Ridenour low C bass clarinet was really up in my list until I read a review stating that the low D lh pinky key is virtually unusable because it is too heavy, except if you also press on the low Eb key to help distribute the weight.
You will tell me that I won't need low D too often. True, but (1) it is a sign of general compromised quality, (2) I do want a low C instrument to be able to play these lowest notes.
I often read that student instruments are paradoxically more difficult to play than professional ones. The only thing that makes them student is their price.
And so far, quality instruments with smooth mechanism I found only in wood (or greenline, which is still wood). Please let me know if you know of any model that I might want to consider.
Thank you everyone,
J.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2019-10-05 19:49
J.,
A few disjointed thoughts:
I own a Ridenour low C and know two other people who do. None of us ever had a problem, and can't imagine why anyone would, esp. with the D key problem, which is new to my ears.
I prefer the acoustic qualities of the Ridenour to the pro-level Yamahas and Selmers I've played, the keywork not so much, but it's by no means "bad" or "fragile" (though the "fragile" criticism still persists years and years after the mechanism was redesigned).
The industry is prejudiced against alternate materials because players are. Regarding materials, ask a top-flight custom clarinet maker such as Steve Fox or Luis Rossi, both who care more about quality than sales. I'm confident that they will tell you that it's not the material that matters as much as the design and execution.
Not having a low C mechanism has nothing to do with any sort of "compromised quality." None. At the level you say you're playing at, you simply don't need the low C. Insisting on having a low C to play the handful of pieces and parts that require it is like spending $13,000 on an extended range soprano clarinet to play the two or three pieces that require it in their original transcriptions. (Nice, if you have the money to burn, but I never did.)
Are you sure you were reading reviews for the Ridenour bass? None of the "corner cutting" stuff you mention is true of this clarinet, much less the single register key (the Ridenour has a double).
Do you know for a fact that all single-register-key mechanisms are inferior to the doubles? I've played a few of the former that rival or surpass the performance of the latter (though these were from the 1950s and '60s).
Anyway, for every positive review of any instrument, you'll also see a negative review, and many reviews are even written by people who haven't even played a particular instrument themselves!
J., what you want is clear cut reviews about what's good and bad and a clear consensus by established bass clarinetists about which instruments to buy. You'll never find either.
If you were my student, my advice to you would be to buy either a Ridenour, Kessler, or used instrument to play while you're learning, then upgrade when you get to an advanced level and know how to evaluate instruments yourself. Or, if you're loaded with money, buy a top-of-the-line professional bass from one of the "big three" manufacturers, a Buffet selected by Walter Grabner or another selection service, or have Steve Fox build you one from scratch. Ten years down the line you'll decide that whatever instrument you're playing isn't as good as some other model anyway.
Those things said, at your admitted skill level, I think you're putting the cart before the horse trying to be too particular about which instruments you should consider.
B.
Post Edited (2019-10-05 22:24)
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Author: judorange
Date: 2019-10-06 03:11
Thank you for your insights. I do totally understand what you're saying, and I'm not saying I'm 100% rational in my thought process.
Just to clarify a few statements I wrote earlier-- I wasn't suggesting that all "students" or "cheaper" instruments had all of the characteristics I mentioned, but some of them. Neither did I want to suggest that low Eb instruments are comprised quality instruments. Sorry if this came across like that. I meant to say that low C instruments are not common in students or "cheaper" models. If low C is a requirement, it often forces one to go higher end instruments. Low Eb instrument can be perfectly good instruments, I agree.
I wrote an asterisk in my previous post, I forgot to say -- I know that low C is pretty rare in the repertoire, low D a little less, but the thing is that I would like to be able to play bassoon pieces and other transcriptions from piano / cello / and other C instruments like flute (moved 2 octaves down, as bassoon usually does).
So yes, Ridenour has low C, has the double register vents (even if other do well without), has hard rubber said to be of superior resonance quality, has reworked his mechanism to be less fragile, and just one review mentioned the heavy mechanism, and the uncomfortable thumb keys (they seem to press too deep, preventing sliding from one to the other -- again, if low notes are to be played). In light of your counter-review, I will reconsider!
Now, money wise, I have no kids, no mortgage, no car, no house. So sometimes i think it's ok for me to allow myself some eccentricities
Friendly,
J.
Post Edited (2019-10-06 03:39)
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-10-06 13:05
Ever since that review on the Kessler Low C by a certain YouTuber, the Kessler is sold out all the time. Thanks to social media, someone with renown just needs to lift a finger to boost the sales of a certain instrument.... :D
Now if you want that Kessler, you might as well buy the Gear4Music/ Rosedale BC, which I'm fairly sure is the exact same instrument like the one sold in Texas, except it's even available. A while back, I was almost about to buy it, but bent keys and a stuck F# kept me from that. But one could've solved these issues, maybe I shouldn't have opted for B-stock.
At any rate, especially if you chose the Ridenour, I'd urge you to buy a decent case. It took me WAY too long to finally make that step, but it was absolutely worth it (once you're in Europe, order this one: https://www.fmb-direkt.de/en/accessories/cases-bags/for-clarinets/1057/bam-case-trekking-for-bass-clarinet-low-c-black). Crazy good price given its features.
As others have said, there's little reason to outright buy a higher end wooden BC. Wind band repetoire quite often goes down to low C, but technically, only the highest grades really make you work on that BC, so an excellent keywork would truly matter. For only personal use, there's hardly any point. To be honest, when adjusted properly and you don't have to travel with it every week, you needn't worry about bending anything. Chinese made or not, they stand up well against older, american-made ebonite student instruments.
Best regards
Christian
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