 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-27 07:23
I consider myself fortunate to have learned about and have attended a Chicago Symphony Orchestra Community outreach concert. This concert was given at a high school on Chicago's northwest side and was free and open to the public. The only hitch was that attendees needed to register for tickets through the CSOs ticket system. Once at the venue attendees needed to have their tickets scanned.
I believe this is the Chicago Symphony's effort to reverse the troubling trend of lower concert attendance by taking it to the people in their backyards. I see this as a long game hoping that younger folks and those that usually don't attend expensive concerts downtown would eventually become regular attendees years into the future.
Here is how serious the CSO is about this. Firstly, they brought their principal players. When I was a student there were "young peoples' concerts" but they involved mostly assistant players, subs and top private students of Chicago Symphony players.
Secondly, and perhaps most amazing, was that internationally renown conductor Riccardo Muti led the concert. This would have been relegated to an assistant conductor normally used for rehearsals and pops concerts.
Thirdly, the musical selection was challenging and meant lift the audience up rather than to condescend. The program consisted of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet Suite and the lesser performed Prokofiev Third Symphony.
This brings me to a big point four. The selections played required the orchestra to bring a contra bassoon, an alto saxophone, celeste, grand piano and an eighteen inch diameter brass bell (like the Liberty Bell!).
All this represented a lot of effort, money and sacrifice. They are doing their own market research by tracking attendees and they must feel this is as important as it could be affective.
Personally I've never thought much of orchestras that just perform dumbed down concerts such as, "an evening of John Williams," "Harry Potter Live," or "selections from your favorite video games."
Whadaya guys think about this? Can it work? Has Muti lost his mind?
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2019-09-27 16:24
Loony Tunes did more for classical music and orchestras than outreach concerts ever did. :-)
B.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-09-27 16:55
NY Philarmonic has been performing "concerts in a park" series during summer time.
However, when going for a concert in a hall, I see a lot (probably majority) of attendees of senior age, some young and middle-aged people. Many tourists too.
The tickets are expensive (over $100 in the prime orchestra), so that alone would preclude many from attending a concert.
So the free concerts may attract people who otherwise would never attend a concert. Maybe even inspire a high school student to commit to continue playing and become a professional player.
PS
My observation of demographics of attendees is only subjective assessment, limited to the orchestra section. Cheaper tickets upstairs are more affordable and there could be more younger people there than downstairs.
*** We are able to buy discounted tickets in the orchestra only because my daughter is eligble to participate in their discount program for young people 17-35 y. old.
Otherwise, we would not be able to go or would not be able to enjoy the music so much if we had to sit upstairs.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-27 19:46
Attachment: 20190924_104756_resized.jpg (250k)
Ah, truly an attempt to save the future. I just received a thank you e-mail for my attendance at the Community Outreach concert. As a thank you, they are offering a 25% discount off the next concert at Orchestra Hall (the kids these days call it the Symphony Center).
Also I TOTALLY left out the clarinet connection to this post. I heard Steve Williamson live for the first time. He has a beautifully lyrically style and though more subdued than say Brody and Combs of the past, the entire woodwind section has a magnificent blend that is perhaps the best I've ever heard from the CSO. Williamson's playing reminds me of Loren Kitt.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-09-27 22:45
I’m 23 years old. Most of my friends are young people, obviously. And many actually like classical music even though they’ve never played an instrument themselves. What keeps them from even thinking about going to a concert is simply the price. The cheapest seats here to see the LA Phil is usually around $85. That’s $170 to take a date. Not to mention the gas, traffic, parking and any online transaction fees. Maybe the price is what it has to be. But it definitely affects the “demographics” of who is attending.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-27 23:21
You know, I truly want to see higher ticket price as a factor in the equation, however, any pop culture headliner requires several hundred dollars just to get in the door of a massive stadium. So the modern reality is that it still boils down to "wanting to attend."
I do agree that in the days of Looney Tunes Cartoons (used as shorts in movie theatres) that classical music more firmly permeated the general populous many many years ago. That is pretty much the up hill battle being fought by orchestral ensembles to generate more interest. There may need to be a coordinated effort across various media (tv, radio, interweb) platforms. But that would require those in the various media platforms being in agreement on the need for classical music awareness. Maybe we, classical music lovers, need to stress that much of classical music IS license free (again........money is talking!).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: HelenaS
Date: 2019-09-28 00:47
Price is the biggest thing that keeps me from going. Adding to the price is that most orchestras perform in cities, and so you have to pay for parking too. Also, I live 50 miles from the nearest big city so it isn't really convenient.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2019-09-28 01:15
Fernie (et al),
This isn't unique to classical music. In early/trad/dixie jazz venues, the same is true. For a couple hundred US dollars, a person can attend a three-day "jazz fest" where the toughest decision a person has to make is which groups they want to hear and which ones they'll have to miss.
A great bargain, right? Yes, unless you're a kid...or unless you've never been exposed to the music before. In those cases, why would you plop down a couple hundred dollars?
The other place you hear early/trad/dixie jazz is in bars. Again - how are kids supposed to be exposed to it?
For early jazz, kids have a tough time finding a live outlet, but at least YouTube is here (the good and the bad).
In my region of the country many of the courthouses and parks still have old band/ceremony elevated gazebos. I always long for the chance to actually hear music played in them again.
Our community does have free outdoor community concerts during the summer which are classical in nature and are well-attended. It's great for audiences, but not so great for the musicians (I think it paid $6 per rehearsal/concert when I last performed in it...which was an increase of $6 per rehearsal/concert in prior years!)
Still, exposing kids to the music where they can experience it live, and where they can afford to go seems to be helpful. Movies/video games/etc. can help too. (For instance, the swing era found new fans from the Fallout 3 game).
I don't usually watch movies made after 1947 or so...do modern movies still feature classical sound tracks?
Fuzzy
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-28 02:23
That's a good question about classical music in movies. Even back in the seventies I had a knock down, drag out fight with a friend over whether it was better to use classical music or original scores (I defended classical music) It is much easier to produce the mood, movement and timing of a scene with custom music (given a competent composer). I recall a King Arthur movie from around 1980 (Ex Calibre?) did a great job with some of Wagner's Ring Cycle.
I saw a recent Star Wars article that spoke of classical music place holders that Lucas used for the original movie. There were one or two that he became so enamored with that it took some time for some of John Williams' score to grow on him.
Personally I'd like to hear more Bach, Mozart and Beethoven in the cinema.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: DougR
Date: 2019-09-28 22:39
I followed the Minnesota Orchestra lockout fairly closely, and saw how the surrounding community could be mobilized to force out the management stooges who engineered the lockout; the outpouring of support for the orchestra has (I believe) created a much more sympathetic, larger, and more stable ticket base.
In Baltimore, I'm not sure what finally clicked to force the management stooges there to end their lockout (the inside story has perhaps yet to be written, and I'd love to know what it is; I'm not sure local support was mobilized in Baltimore to anything like the degree it was in Minnesota, and I don't know why).
I have been fortunate lately to attend concerts by The American Classical Orchestra, a period-instruments outfit ranging from baroque to early-mid classical repertoire. Over a few years I've seen their audience size gradually increase, to the point where their season premiere a couple weeks ago easily sold out Alice Tully Hall, and garnered standing ovations for every piece they played.
Mr. Crawford starts every concert with a talk; he has an urbane, warm and very twinkly style that makes the audience feel like a band of 'insiders'; he talks about the composers, the compositions, the interplay between sections in the orchestra, illustrating his points with selections played by the orchestra (or sections thereof) in a way that conveys his respect both for the repertoire AND for the audience. It's very much in the Bernstein 'Young Peoples' Concerts" vein, and results in a degree of audience involvement that (clearly) delivers a return in ticket sales.
All of which is to say, I'm not sure there is a standard "The Orchestra" to worry over; under the right circumstances live classical music seems to be doing fine. So much so that in circumstances where a management resorts to a lockout, or attacks musicians for "costing too much", MY first thought is, 'What is the orchestra management doing wrong? How come Minnesota can make a go of it and Baltimore can't?"
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2019-09-30 07:26
A friend, who is a principal player in the Cincinnati Symphony, said that their best attended concerts are those live movie music concerts. And they're not cheap, but they sell out. Just an interesting anecdote. (and it's not as if he was happy about it...just a fact!)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-09-30 16:45
clarinetist04 wrote:
> A friend, who is a principal player in the Cincinnati Symphony,
> said that their best attended concerts are those live movie
> music concerts. And they're not cheap, but they sell out.
I don't doubt that those concerts are major ticket sellers or that they're popular. But I have to ask what their purpose is. If selling the house for those couple of concerts (or even a half-dozen, counting multiple performances of the same program) is enough of a shot in the arm to keep the orchestra solvent, then they're useful. If their purpose is to try to build audience for the rest of the season, to sell more tickets to the "classical" concerts, I question if that really happens. It has always seemed to me that pops-oriented and "classical"-oriented concerts attract different groups that are nearly mutually exclusive or at least have very limited overlap.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-30 18:36
The "Harry Potter Live" idea does not in my opinion "build" anything. It is like a bag of Doritos. You may enjoy it in the moment but it's nothing you'll remember much longer than it takes you to get back to your car, and you'll probably regret it sooner than later.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fun movie as much as the next guy, but people have been connecting with the music of Mozart for well over two hundred years........for some reason that may not be definable. But as good as Rowling and John Williams are, I don't know if the same will be said for them come 2220.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-09-30 22:23
Paul Aviles wrote:
> The "Harry Potter Live" idea does not in my opinion "build"
> anything.
> ...people have been connecting with the music of Mozart
> for well over two hundred years........for some reason that may
> not be definable. But as good as Rowling and John Williams
> are, I don't know if the same will be said for them come 2220.
>
Well, part of the point is that if you want to see Harry Potter and listen to Williams's music, you can always rent the movies or find them online. Why would you need to hear the local orchestra trying to sync with the video action, when the actual recorded sound track was itself played more than competently by the original studio orchestra?
Karl
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Author: brycon
Date: 2019-10-01 00:54
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a fun movie as much as the next guy, but people have been connecting with the music of Mozart for well over two hundred years........for some reason that may not be definable. But as good as Rowling and John Williams are, I don't know if the same will be said for them come 2220.
Star Wars came out over 40 years ago. It's music is embedded more deeply in the general psyche than any Mozart piece and shows little sign of fading...
Film music and art music do different things. If you compare the sublime art of Mozart to that of John Williams, sure you'll find the latter lacking. There isn't any Kantian purposeful purposelessness in the Star Wars music: it simply sets the mood and character of, say, the Galactic Empire (though I imagine it does so better than any art music you could substitute). So saying, "Mozart is better than John Williams," is like declaring, "I like Jane Austen more than apple pie!" The statement doesn't really mean that much and no one particularly cares.
Quote:
The "Harry Potter Live" idea does not in my opinion "build" anything. It is like a bag of Doritos. You may enjoy it in the moment but it's nothing you'll remember much longer than it takes you to get back to your car, and you'll probably regret it sooner than later.
Because John Williams's music really needs the movie to go with it (and this is why I find his concertos so unsuccessful: i.e. they're movie music without a movie), I don't think it works particularly well in a concert-hall setting. But people really like it, and orchestras make money playing it. (Moreover, I'm sure the larger orchestras have tested movie-music nights with marketing gurus and found them to be something they should be doing.) And what's a better policy, giving audiences some of what they want and then trying to steer them towards Mozart or condescendingly arguing, "John Williams stinks and Mozart is brilliant, so we aren't offering any Star Wars, but you can come to our A major piano concerto performance"?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-01 02:05
It is a bit of a mischaracterization that I implied that one composer is better than another, however the whole point of my post is to bring to your attention the DIFFERENT approach the venerable Chicago Symphony Orchestra and their music director Riccardo Muti have decided to take. They are taking major works out to the general public in these free concerts performed at the most professional level (the mountain comes to Muhammad).
I hope it works. I also hope other major symphonies around the country are watching this example as closely as the CSO itself.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2019-10-01 02:35
Quote:
It is a bit of a mischaracterization that I implied that one composer is better than another, however the whole point of my post is to bring to your attention the DIFFERENT approach the venerable Chicago Symphony Orchestra and their music director Riccardo Muti have decided to take. They are taking major works out to the general public in these free concerts performed at the most professional level (the mountain comes to Muhammad).
I hope it works. I also hope other major symphonies around the country are watching this example as closely as the CSO itself.
Yeah, but what works in Chicago or New York might not work in Cincinnati or Houston--to say nothing of Raleigh or Birmingham. Every city has different audiences, who in turn have different tastes and concert-going habits. Big new- music concerts might do well in New York but turn off more traditional audiences in Houston, for example.
I think one of the more interesting ensembles in terms of outreach is the New World Symphony. Check out some of the stuff they do (which includes movie music...).
Post Edited (2019-10-01 02:35)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-10-01 02:45
brycon wrote:
> And what's a better policy, giving audiences some of
> what they want and then trying to steer them towards Mozart or
> condescendingly arguing, "John Williams stinks and Mozart is
> brilliant, so we aren't offering any Star Wars, but you can
> come to our A major piano concerto performance"?
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, only because the evidence isn't yet in of the success or failure of "giving audiences some of what they want and then trying to steer them towards Mozart." That these concerts are in themselves moneymakers is probably indisputable. That they fill seats for the A major piano concerto performance is still unproven.
Hopefully the marketing gurus are making honest appraisals and not substituting enthusiasm for objectivity.
Karl
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Author: brycon
Date: 2019-10-01 03:34
Quote:
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, only because the evidence isn't yet in of the success or failure of "giving audiences some of what they want and then trying to steer them towards Mozart." That these concerts are in themselves moneymakers is probably indisputable. That they fill seats for the A major piano concerto performance is still unproven.
I agree with you but kinda see it as a Pascal's wager: a.) Doing popular concerts might or might not bring in any new classics audiences; it will, however, make money and not turn off audiences. b.) Refusing to do popular concerts will turn away some potential audience members. For me, as I imagine for many orchestra boards, choice a is the better option regardless of if it does indeed yield an expanded audience.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-01 07:02
Ah, the theme from the Godfather! We have a movie score we can't refuse.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2019-10-02 05:37
It's inspiring any time you present someone with live music that hasn't been distorted by amplification. When you hear a real symphony orchestra (or even a single instrument capably handled) you are having an experience that can't be reproduced. The sensory experience is anything from remarkable to life changing. Musicians forget how wonderful and rare it is. People respond to it.
One of the many problems classical music has is simply lack of familiarity. It's on the periphery. It just fades from the consciousness and is replaced with nonsense. Pops concerts help. They're listening to more than Star Wars or Harry Potter (which are worth listening to), they are experiencing live clarinets, strings, etc. and it's making their lives richer.
- Matthew Simington
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