 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 12:25
I have twice tried teaching students with attention deficit disorder, both times unsuccessfully, I'm afraid. This, though I am very patient. I suppose I would have required some specific training in how to deal with this handicap, which has nothing to do with the student's talent or intelligence, I hasten to add. I simply wasn't able to make the students progress, the obstacles being too great; problems in reading, jerky physical movements, inability to practise, etc.) Does anybody out there have any experience with students suffering from this not unusual disorder?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2019-09-24 13:08
My first question is, how do you know that their disabilty was ADD or ADHD? I have taught many formally identified ADD students and have rarely had a problem. Is it possible that your two students had some other disability? Who diagnosed them?
Of the three indicators you mention, I wouldn't consider jerky physical movements to be a defining symptom of ADD or even ADHD. Many kids with these disabilities become excellent athletes with very good motor control because of the physical release sports and other athletic activities provide. I'm curious what else is in the "etc." in your list.
Karl
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Author: two toots ★2017
Date: 2019-09-24 14:30
I am the parent of a person with Down Syndrome. We have been learning clarinet together for 7 years although she had instruction during her school experience.
What works for us is that I write the letters for the notes under each line. For some reason she doesn't "get" the notion of the notes on the staff. Whether this is because of her problems with depth perception or what is uncertain but she is finally showing some signs of being able to read off the staff. Baby steps!
Because I have not played clarinet in school, we need to learn the same things so we may be pretty unusual, but we practice together every day. While she will often play by herself, she needs the guidance to stay accurate in her play.
So while these are very different conditions I wonder if the inability to "read" you mention is somehow related. It is labor intensive to "transcribe" the music and I may be in a very unusual position to be able to practice with her every day I wonder if the patience that you normally employ is not sufficient in this kind of case. As a parent I have learned to expect little and be happy with what we achieve.
Another method that was used by her school aide was to color code the notes.
It is probably necessary to think outside the box but things can be done and the rewards for the individual are huge.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 16:48
Dear two toots: my sincere thanks for the very informative and touching witness you have borne here. I'm all in favour of "thinking out of the box" and your narration inspires one to do so.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 16:56
Karl: One student was an adult who told me he suffered from this, so I took his word for it. Other characteristics: he had to write in all accidentals; couldn't retain the official key signature. This made it well-nigh impossible for him to sight read anything. Also, once he had more or less learned a piece, if we went back to it 6 months later, it was like going back to square one: as though he had never seen it before and it would take him just as long to learn the piece as it had the first time.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2019-09-24 17:35
I've had a couple of kids with ADHD, ADD, and a couple on the spectrum as well.
Extreme patience is the rule. Not every teacher will be able to instruct these folks, and it's not a failing. Letting the student stand up and walk around a little in between playing things, scheduling the lesson on a whiteboard where they know exactly what is going to happen when, and occasionally doing some cross-body physical exercises all help to keep their brain in a learning mode.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2019-09-24 17:56
ruben wrote:
> Karl: One student was an adult who told me he suffered from
> this, so I took his word for it. Other characteristics: he had
> to write in all accidentals; couldn't retain the official key
> signature.
Ruben, there is certainly some kind of learning disability at work here with the student you're describing. My thought, though, is that these problems are not necessarily typical of classic "ADD" or "ADHD" or "ADD with Hyperactivity." Reading difficulties are common to a lot of learning deficits. Inability to retain the learned material over a period of time (6 months) could be a result of inattention while the learning is going on, but it could be part of a more severe problem. Difficulty reading pitch notation can be what the special ed teachers where I worked called "spatial perception" deficits (the position of the notes on the staff). Key signatures are of course meaningless if a student can't identify the notes - the signature of D major won't provide any useful information to someone who doesn't know which notes are F or C.
The bottom line, though, is that in my experience simple attention deficit, if it's the primary issue, doesn't result in these kinds of problems, and more severe perceptual deficits (leaving out behavioral or developmental ones), often benefit, as you suggested, from more specialized, targeted work-arounds. It does take more than just patience. When I worked with kids at school who were identified as "learning disabled" (these as a rule did not include ADD kids), the special ed teachers often got involved in helping with approaches that could provide successful experiences.
Of course, finding help working with an adult can be more difficult and you probably need to rely more on the adult student's own self-awareness of what will work and what won't.
There are some basic things you can do to help a kid with true ADD or ADHD that isn't a symptom of a more basic disability - approaches I had to learn not just as a teacher but also as a father. My son managed through his ADHD symptoms, became an accomplished enough trumpet player to be accepted into a university music ed program and is now a very good high school music teacher, so ADD and conventional music learning are not in every case mutually exclusive.
Music, of course, is ultimately an aural art, not a visual one. Sometimes if a student just can't make headway with reading music, he or she can have a satisfying result from listening, hearing and imitating. It's how Suzuki instruction works (sometimes to the detriment of a student's willingness later in the process to learn to read notation). There are musicians everywhere in all music genres who don't read music, including some who are quite successful and famous.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 19:14
Karl: much useful and eminently sensible information that I will ponder over. You are right to lay the emphasis on the fact that music is basically an aural art. Classical music is extremely reading-centric. A New Orleans early jazz musician -I think it was George Lewis- once replied, when the interviewer said to him: "I've been told you can't read music": "I ain't never seen nobody pay to see somebody read music to him. They pay to hear you play it."
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 22:53
Katrina: thank you for your excellent and insightful suggestions. There is no reason why somebody with attention deficit disorder should be deprived of the joy of making music or should be any less good at it.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-09-24 23:31
I have ADD. I have taught many ADD/ADHD students as well as students with learning disabilities or Aspergers/Autism.
The qualities you are describing do not belong inherently to any of those groups.
Generally speaking: any of the folks in these categories will work with you if they are interested and they are feeling successful accomplishing what you ask or understanding what needs to be accomplished.
I think that, with a sampling size of two, you’ve had two rather poor students who happened to have ADD/ADHD.
Thinking back you’ll likely have had more poor students without any type of learning/formative challenge? I certainly can.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2019-09-24 23:37)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-24 23:41
You certainly are in a position to have vastly greater knowledge of the subject than I have and I thank you for correcting my misconception.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2019-09-25 03:17
Some good ideas have been mentioned. I should have some, having taught band (especially grade 6 beginners) for years, but I have no specifics. I would think that attention deficit students may tend to be the ones who like to experiment ei. make up tunes, rather than get into rigid practicing--which is what you do with classical music. I have been told that at a young age I was perhaps a bit "all over the place". My private teacher in 3rd-4th grade used to write out neat little tunes (from his club date gigs, I think) that we'd go over at the end of the lesson. But, he required I practice 40 minutes a day and I did. Putting a round peg in a square hole is not easy.
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