 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 12:31
Matters of musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics, historical figures, period instruments, etc. seem to arouse little interest on this board. Few people post on these subjects or reply to posts. It seems to be 99 per cent barrels, mouthpieces, reeds and ligatures. Don't get me wrong. I am interested in equipment and take part in discussions on these subjects. Nevertheless, I am slightly dismayed by a lack of interest in more artistic topics, though, for the moment, I haven't lost any sleep over this. Do there exist other boards that address cultural aspects of our art more? (which doesn't mean I would abandon the BBoard).
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-22 14:39
I don't understand the question.
This is a clarinet centric entity. I'm sure there are musicology blogs out there for those who wish to discuss the difference between well and modified meantone temperments, but that's not the intent here.........I'm guessing.
Just for comparison's sake, there is a bloggy spot for audio engineers called "Gearslutz." This internet entity does have various sections in it for professionals versus newbies, and other discussion topics that delve into more process, and yet the basic areas are for those who want to discuss the hardware. How folks use the gear is even more subjective and varies greatly from one engineer to another having the potential to really muddy the waters.
If we all cannot agree on how a reed works, we might just kill each other over what Schubert meant by what might look more like a decrescendo to the casual observer.
What's your favorite ligature?
:-)
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2019-09-22 15:03
Boredom and lack of patience are powerful motivations for curiosity. It's easy for us as clarinettists to get obsessed with gear; whether it might or might not instantly improve our playing, and the latest issue with our technique that has emerged which we instinctively blame on the equipment. The slow obtaining of wisdom in matters of musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics, historical figures and HIP as you say sadly holds less appeal for many, as the results sometimes take a while to show and don't seem cool, exciting and flashy in the way that the latest ligature or mouthpiece do. However, obtaining knowledge in and conversing about these subjects is a defining factor in what will make us great musicians, and by extension, great clarinettists.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 16:18
Paul: an example of a topic that did get quite a few interesting replies and a good discussion going recently: "do you feel the Mozart Clarinet Concerto is better served by playing it on a basset clarinet?" -clarinet-centric but not too recondite. I'm not complaining about talking shop; ie. ligatures. I just object to EXCLUSIVELY talking about gear.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-09-22 17:04
ruben wrote:
> Matters of musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics,
> historical figures, period instruments, etc. seem to arouse
> little interest on this board.
We do from time to time have discussions here of the kind you miss, and there are a few who post here who are able to offer real insights into those areas when they're brought up. We've both read their posts here over the years. Often the questions that initiate discussions like the one you mention (about using a basset clarinet for the Mozart concerto) come from high school (or more rarely college) students preparing one of the major repertoire pieces for an upcoming audition. There was a question asked recently about articulation in the Weber F minor concerto that generated some musical (not equipment-centric) discussion.
But you're right that there's less of it here than there once was on the Klarinet listserve. I for one would welcome more of that here. But, someone has to start such threads. Most of the questions posted *are* equipment-centered. To get more discussion of "musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics, historical figures, period instruments, etc." would require more posts asking questions or offering positions in these areas as points of departure.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-09-22 17:15
Seems to me that most of the inquiries - questions we get on this board are more fundamental questions coming from amateurs not pros. With some exceptions of course. Face book has several clarinet groups ranging from pro to semi pro that often deals with more "musical" matter though even there, equipment is often highlighted. Let'ss face it, we are facinated with equipment because there's so much of it out there now.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 17:32
Karl: I have raised basically musical topics and practically got zero response. Not that I take it personally, mind you. I'm very interested in repertoire, for instance, and ask about it, to very little avail (recent example: what are the Paris Conservatory "morceaux de concours" of the last 100 years that deserve to become part of the repertory?": one response!).
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-09-22 18:43
ruben wrote:
> (recent example: what are the Paris
> Conservatory "morceaux de concours" of the last 100 years that
> deserve to become part of the repertory?": one response!).
>
I for one don't have any idea which pieces have been used in the Paris Conservatory contests. I certainly haven't played more than few, maybe only a couple, of pieces entitled "Morceau de concours" and I'm sure there are many others with different titles that I wouldn't connect with the Paris Conservatory without help from the publisher (for example, I think the edition I've seen of the Messager Solo de Concours identifies the connection). Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to new solo repertoire, but that may be a question that presupposes too much detailed knowledge about one very specific area to get more than a single response.
Don't give up.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 19:07
Thanks for your encouragement, Karl! Of course, there exists the Clarinet Journal, which goes into recondite matters more in depth and whose articles are often written by tenure-seeking university faculty members. The advantage of our forum is that it is interactive and allows everybody to express himself. The drawback of the Clarinet Journal is that it can get pretty parochial.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2019-09-22 19:58
ruben wrote:
> The advantage of our forum is that
> it is interactive and allows everybody to express himself. The
> drawback of the Clarinet Journal is that it can get pretty
> parochial.
The disadvantage of our forum is thatit is interactive and allows everybody to express themselves, even if they have no knowledge of the subject at hand and shouldn't. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-22 20:09
The best of this forum is the wide ranging input. I've learned some fingerings and approaches over the years that I had not run into through study.........and I am greatly appreciative.
I am also indebted to the International contributors that can immediately and conclusively confirm or refute concepts that otherwise would have gone on as hearsay........back in my day. You kids don't know how how good you have it !!!!!
Of course I hate to be the one to point this out (truly I do), but a basset clarinet is technically gear......and I don't care for their sound either.
Although I was floored by the quality and sound of the latest Patricola clarinets which I first hear about on this very forum and hope to some day be able to find a JL Clarinet to try out.....if they ever attend a ClarinetFest that is.
..................Paul Aviles (the meek and humble)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-09-22 20:50
I agree with Karl. I love the purely musical discussions, but try to stay out of the ones I know nothing useful about.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-09-22 20:59
"Seems to me that most of the inquiries - questions we get on this board are more fundamental questions coming from amateurs not pros...."
Hi Ruben,
I agree with Ed Palanker's statement above.
It's a lot easier to aswer a question about equipment (regardless if the answer is right or wrong one), than answer a question about interpretation of a certain piece of music.
That is why, I think, your post about Mozart concerto did not get many replies.
I can't play it. I can share my limited experince about mechanical issues or how to identify an instrument, but there's nothing I can offer about high level performance so I would not reply to your posts because I would not be able to contribute anything and would only embarrass myself.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 21:12
We (JL Clarinettes) attended the Assisi ClarinetFest in 2013. We got tons of compliments, drank excellent wine, met delightful people, visited Assisi, one of the most beautiful cities on God's earth...and sold zero clarinets.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 21:16
Mark: There's always something to be learned from people's misconceptions. A few of mine have been corrected on this board, and I am grateful for that.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2019-09-22 21:41
Ruben,
I'm not sure how one learns from "people's misconceptions." Can you please tell me your basis for making this assertion.
HRL
Post Edited (2019-09-22 21:44)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-09-22 22:26
Unfortunately (or not) the ClarinetFest alternately splits its time between Europe and the United States. I would guess that for those who find longer trips economically cumbersome they just wait for the next year's event and save the air fair across the pond.
Of course I'm not trying to sell instruments in a wide open market. So I just enjoy my box of wine from WalMart.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2019-09-22 22:32
Only a small handful of people posting here have the background to discuss seriously issues of, say, musicology and aesthetics. Moreover, barring such a background, only a small handful of people have the Socratic (or Dunning-Krugeratic) awareness to know that they don't really know very much about these issues and should proceed accordingly.
I post here from time to time when something related to criticism, musicology, theory, or analysis pops up, either because it interests me or I think it might interest some other clarinet players. Sometimes it's a good discussion with interested and interesting participants, sometimes it's ignored, and sometimes it's vehemently argued by someone who has all the expertise of a garden slug (as when I pointed out that the second F# in m. 109 of the first movement of Mozart has to be an F natural--hardly a "hot take" in the realm of theory and musicology).
I don't have a ton of free time. And spending what free time I have crafting detailed posts, which will most likely be met with a "meh," isn't something I'm often going to do. Maybe it's just me, but I imagine others feel the same way.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 23:25
I said "purely musical matters", but maybe I should have said: " matters other than reeds, ligatures, bells and the like".
Some examples of topics I have introduced; some successfully:
-How to deal with students suffering from dyslexia
-should a clarinet teacher play a lot while giving a lesson?
-What remains of "national schools" of playing. Is globalisation necessarily a
good thing in music-making?
I would like to see more topics on the learning process, history, even medical issues (playing with ringing in the ears, muscular problems, etc.)
There has to be more to life than ligatures!
PS: I hope you will try out my new ligature, which is coming out soon!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-09-22 23:32
ruben wrote:
> -How to deal with students suffering from dyslexia
> -should a clarinet teacher play a lot while giving a
> lesson?
> -What remains of "national schools" of playing. Is
> globalisation necessarily a
> good thing in music-making?
> I would like to see more topics on the learning process,
> history, even medical issues (playing with ringing in the ears,
> muscular problems, etc.)
>
Keep throwing them in. Some may blossom. Some may not. The ones that do may turn out to be a learning experience for those of us who *are* interested.
> There has to be more to life than ligatures!
>
Well, there are reeds, clarinets, bells, barrels... ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
I think ligature *screws* are under-discussed.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 23:32
Hank: In answer to your question, I will refer to one of my own misconceptions, for I am not above having them. On the subject that I introduced on the basset clarinet, I complained of the lack of homogeneity of the instrument: how it makes the Mozart Clarinet Concerto sound as though it is being played by tow different instruments. Tony Pay explained that this is precisely what the composer is after: a kind of operatic dialogue effect. This awareness has changed my way of listening and playing the work.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-22 23:45
Karl; thank you for your encouragements and I will be dauntless! Anyway, it's not really the quantity of replies that one receives that counts; it's their quality. PS: as soon as my new ligature comes out, give me your address and I will send you a free one. How's that for a human-being being full of contradictions?!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-09-23 00:49
Hi Ruben,
It looks like your post created a lively discussion, after all😊
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2019-09-23 07:13
kdk wrote: "But you're right that there's less of it here than there once was on the Klarinet listserve."
I decided to do a search comparison between the Klarinet Archives and the Clarinet BB Archives. (Comparison of "hits" or "responses")
Here is what I found:
.....Klarinet Archives.......BB Archives
Mozart........9362.............10,118
Weber.........2509..............4,097
Period Inst...1936..............2,282
Nuances........260................587
Hist. Figures...82.................32
Tony Pay......5284...............2606
ligatures.....3453.............13,791
Is any of the above of any value? I don't know... However, the results for Tony Pay really shows an interesting contrast to me!
Now, about those ligature responses...
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-09-23 09:30
dear 1964: yes, a lively discussion and so far, with no signs of aggression. My topic is perhaps a little on the provocative side, but I have received no death threats. As I have often said, I'm not opposed to talking about gear and will continue to do so myself. Better to make ligatures than to make bombs!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-09-23 18:06
ruben wrote:
> dear 1964: yes, a lively discussion and so far, with no signs
> of aggression. My topic is perhaps a little on the provocative
> side, but I have received no death threats. As I have often
> said, I'm not opposed to talking about gear and will continue
> to do so myself. Better to make ligatures than to make bombs!
>
Wait. Those high- end ligature manufactureres have not read this thread (yet). If I were you, I'd hire a bodyguard.
Also I propose that any thread containing word "ligature" gets lock- up by the forum administrator after 10 replies.
The number of replies can be voted so I would not be held responsible by ligature manufacturers.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2019-09-23 19:32
I would like to read more threads about "Matters of musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics," and " historical figures".
I have read a book about period instruments, and I own one.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2019-09-23 20:06
I am still thinking about why some think pros use hard reeds!
;-)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2019-09-23 20:40
Whenever I need guidance or insights on "matters of musicology, repertoire, editions, style, aesthetics, historical figures, period instruments, etc.", I confer with colleagues in the ensemble wherein these matters arise. We come up with a intelligent consensus on how best to interpret, approach, or otherwise address the musical matter at hand. Once implemented, if the consensus solution passes muster with the conductor, the matter is settled; no need to take the matter to the BBoard or to other colleagues outside of the ensemble.
While this BBoard is an invaluable resource for many aspects of clarinet playing, some questions are best addressed by those other sets of ears seated around you in an ensemble.
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