 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-27 18:22
Because I do so many outdoor concerts here in Texas in 100 degree (Farenheit) weather, I'm thinking of buying a greenline R-13. I have heard some really good things about them and would love to hear from some of you who own one. I've also heard great things about the greenline Festival but don't know where to buy one of those.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-06-27 18:35
Brenda Siewert wrote:
>
> Because I do so many outdoor concerts here in Texas in
> 100 degree (Farenheit) weather, I'm thinking of buying a
> greenline R-13. I have heard some really good things about
> them and would love to hear from some of you who own one.
You can write to Bob Spring at Robert.Spring@asu.edu.
> I've
> also heard great things about the greenline Festival but don't
> know where to buy one of those.
Brook-Mays has them on occasion.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-06-27 18:46
Hi Brenda,
I aquired a Buffet Greenline RC Prestige in 1995, it sounds as good as anybody's horn. I was a bit scared on how it would age, but after 6 years apart from replacing a few pads and tuning it up once in while I have never had any problems with it.
This intrument lived in France (south and north), Kansas, and now Montreal. Has been taken on the plane on many many occasions. Needless to say it did not crack and sounds as if it was new.
At the time I bought my clarinet the geenline festival did not exist but it became a very popular instrument at the Paris Conservatory since it appeared on the market. Just check the boosey site a lot of the french buffet artists are playing a greenline festival.
I have only good things to say about it.
-Sylvain
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Author: John Gould
Date: 2001-06-27 18:52
I too was curious about the Greenline Buffet, and back in March sought the opinion of Jonathan Cohler on the broader subject of clarinet materials. His very informed reply included referring me to "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics" by Arthur Benade published by Dover. He also felt that in the past, plastic clarinets were always made cheaply, thus sounding cheap; not because they were plastic. The Greenline is the first production pro-quality clarinet to address [I would think] the notion that other factors besides material alone (such as the exact placement, shaping and sizing of tone holes, and smoothness of the interior) have a dramatic effect on the sound. You might try Kessler Music in Las Vegas NV for a good price on Greenlines. I realize taste in sound/timbre is very subjective, but I tried a Greenline recently, and thought the tone was nice, although somewhat lighter in character than a stock R13. At the very least, I thought the horn was good enough to use as a spare, and I could even see using it in a chamber music setting.
Worth checking into, especially for those hot outdoor gigs.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-27 18:54
I just sent my new wooden Festival to the Brannens and Linda Brannen told me one of her customers has both wood and greenline versions and he actually prefers the greenline Festival to the wood for recording. She didn't give a name, but some of their customers are quite well known clarinetists.
By the way, again, I want to commend their service to all you fellow Sneezies. Such great people to work with.
Thanks Mark. I'll check with my friend here in Abilene. He just sold out to Brook Mays. I could get one shipped in.
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Author: Carl L
Date: 2001-06-27 21:22
Brenda- did you score that Series 6 on ebay the other day? Went for $600? Let me know whaqt you think of it (good for orchestra or band) after you've had a chance to play it.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-27 21:55
Carl, you mean the Series 9? Yes, I did. But, I waited until it looked like you weren't going to do it. I'm buying it to resell, hopefully to a friend who plays in the community band with me. When it gets here I'll remark about it. He's sending it Priority Mail, so I'm expecting to get it by Monday. I'll give it a thorough testing and will send it home with my friend and let him access it as well. He's been playing ONLY Selmer clarinets for 40 years and was very excited about the possibility of getting the Series 9. And for $600.00 how could I go wrong? I'll mark it up to $700.00 to him--after all--I'm the one taking the risk.
And Ken, the Brannens were very complimentary of the greenline Festival. Linda said it had a very nice tone and was nice to work with. And, yes, after I posted I did the search and came up with tons of comments on greenline. Sorry. Oh well, maybe this will all be new to someone.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2001-06-27 22:20
I have a problem with the whole concept of the Greenline clarinet. I think it is great if you have to play outside. Now that I have said that, I will also add that the whole principle does not suit me as far as an indoor instrument goes. I have tried these clarinets. So I do have a little experice and knowledge about these clarinets. My teacher actually plays one. But to me, the whole concept of an instrument made of sawdust and glue(essentially it is!) is wrong. Why do string players long for Stadavarious instruments? Pianists prefer Steinway? Vibration! That is what a good clarinet should do. Now there are other factors, yes. A clarinet made of sawdust and glue will not vibrate like a clarinet made with just wood. At least that is what I have observed. I will add that I am sure a great Greeline is as good or slightly better than a sorry pure wooden R-13. But we as musicians strive for vibration. The Greenline just does not deliver against a regular R-13. At least that is what I have noticed. Can you get a good sound with a Greenline? Sure! But a great violinist will sound better on a Stadavarious than one made of boxwood. Why? Vibration! So, keeping in mind that since I have played at most seven or eight Greenlines, please do not all start hissing at once! These are my observations based upon what I felt and heard. Yes, feel! You can actually feel the difference in vibration between a Greenline and a normal R-13. But, mind you that this is what I have observed. Some people will swear by these instruments. I do not. Hope this doesn't add to much fuel to the fire!
Brandon
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-06-27 23:04
I have been working with the misgivings that the reed is the only thing that should vibrate.
........that the sound reverberates inside the "tube" that changes length as we key............
Guess I need to go read that accoustics info....................now where was that?
~ jerry
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-27 23:16
Author: Brandon wrote:
Yes, feel! You can actually feel the difference in vibration between a Greenline and a normal R-13.
-------------------------
I spoke to Tom Ridenour about choices of horn last year, and he commented on the lack of vibrancy of the Greenline. I tried some Greenlines, and they felt heavier than the wooden R-13, and not vibrant for me. I'm sure Brenda will try before buying, and let us know what she observes.
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-06-28 02:24
I spoke with the clarinet professor here at UNLV recently about the Greenlines. He also indicates that the tone/timbre of the horn is not as satisfactory to him as his R-13 wood models. I was somewhat surprised, as I had heard lots of good things about the Greenlines. I hope to be able to try a greenline sometime soon (Maybe ClarinetFest?) just so I can get an objective idea of the differences between the R-13 and the Greenlines. I'm sure that it is just as most things clarinet: a truly personal and subjective opinion about the particular setup that is right for the way you play.
Best Of Luck!
Kevin Stockdale
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-06-28 03:44
Brandon,
Its a new world out there. I like wood, I work in it but... Houses are being made of "sawdust and glue" adhesives have replaced rivets in airliners, I own a "fiberglass" (actually fiber reinforced plastic) boat, carbon composite materials appear in everything including bicycles and golf clubs (and are considered a high line material) and so on. It was inevitable that engineered materials have reached pro level clarinets. Sad but true, most of the "good" trees on this planet are gone, and many of the rest are preserved from cutting.
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-06-28 05:25
Violins have strings, which vibrate. This virbration is carried to the violin body by a small piece of wood, making the violin top side virbrate. This makes the the air in the violin vibrate and this vibration is pumped out of the openings of the body into the surrounding air. It seems obvious that this kind of tone production is affected by the material (and the shape) of the violin body.
But on the clarinet?
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Author: Beth Gray
Date: 2001-06-28 11:48
Brenda,
I bought a Greenline R13 after much research and conversations with people who play them. Mine came from IMS with Lisa picking it out for me. I love it! My teacher says my tone is full and dark. I have a Leblanc L70 which to me sounds much brighter than the Greenline. I'm sure part of it is my set up on the Leblanc but that's another story. My advice is to try it....you might like it. I have to agree with Ken, if the Brannens will work on it what higher compliment can an instrument have?
Beth
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-28 14:11
What I am reading here is that the 'feel' of the vibration is important to SOME players. Perhaps their perception of the sound is tainted by what they feel.
They are possibly the same people for whom a placebo would be as effective as a real drug, and get stomach aches if their head contains worries. Just attach a battery vibrator to the clarinet body and the sound will seem even better! 
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-06-28 14:22
I guess the points discussed here are how does it sound vs how does it feel.
I would be very interested in a blind test where one player plays both greenlines and wooden horns.
I dare the listener to be able to consistently discriminate between the different clarinets and comment on this difference.
However, I do understand that the feel of the instrument is important to the player. There I would tend to agree that the greelines feel a little bit different, if you don't like don't buy it, but don't tell me it sounds duller of brighter than a wooden instrument.
-S
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-28 15:18
I would always be using the wood Festival in orchestral concert settings indoors. In outdoor concerts the largest percentage of the tone of the instrument is sometimes lost except to those who sit right next to me. Although it's important to have that excellent "timbre" to your tone outdoors as well as indoors, I think a really good greenline with my new Greg Smith wood and Kaspar mouthpieces would work well without the worry over the change in temp. with the wood.
I did discuss this with Lisa Argiris a couple of weeks ago when I was in her store in Chicago (well, Des Plaines). She agreed the greenline would be the best choice for an outdoor instrument in the Texas heat. I asked her to look for a really, really good sounding one for me and she is doing that.
And, if you could try one at a clarinetfest that would be great. However, remember that that particular one might not be the one you get if you order one later on. Play-testing is so very important.
Yes, Bill, I will play-test as many as I can and will certainly let you know.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2001-06-28 16:15
Brenda, I would be quite hesitant about using a wooden mpc outdooors, or for that matter the Kaspar. I would invest in a Vandoren or something that is moderately priced. Those wooden mpcs really do not do that well in that kind of heat. At least that is what I have been told. Plus, if it is a good Kaspar, I would certainly not play it outdoors!
Brandon
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-28 18:39
Brandon,
I haven't done the wooden one outdoors yet, but have used the Kaspar before and as long as I handle it carefully there's no problem that's more substantial than using it indoors. The biggest danger to the hard rubber/steel ebonite type mouthpieces is in being dropped and broken. I also have an older Charles Bay Kaspar that I use sometimes. It's a pretty good mouthpiece.
But, for great Kaspar clones--you can't beat Greg Smith's. His Cicero 13 clone plays exactly like the genuine one. Nice.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-06-28 19:02
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> And, if you could try one at a clarinetfest that would be
> great. However, remember that that particular one might not be
> the one you get if you order one later on.
Buy it right there on the spot!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-28 19:26
Ok. I thought they just had those for display purposes. So, if you find one at clarinetfest that you like BUY IT right away!! Sorry, I won't be there, so if someone buys one please let me know how you like it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-06-29 00:57
Brenda,
People like Lisa Argeris or WW & BW will bring 50-60 clarinets along. Buffet will have maybe 10-15. If you try everywhere and the ones at the Buffet table are the ones you want - you can't buy them from Buffet - but - you can arrange a deal where one of the vendors will buy & resell the one from the Buffet table.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-30 15:32
Mark,
What kind of prices can you get there? Do they match Lisa's prices? Or, perhaps better? Or, do you usually pay retail?
Not that they're not worth it, but after just purchasing a new Festival and the loss of $1,500.00 on the Symphonie VII, I need to find a good deal.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-06-30 15:58
Lisa, WW & BW, Weiner, Brook-Mays et al. will normally have "show specials". As I mentioned above, we bought a pair of festivals at ClarinetFest for 4400 - 2100 for the Bb, 2300 for the A, and they were chosen from around 20-30 festivals available that year (the A came from the Buffet booth - Brook-Mays bought it for resale right there).
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-30 21:50
That's a good deal. Since I just paid $3,145.00 for my Bb Festival at Brook Mays, it would be a great deal!!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-07-03 06:48
Surely the greenline Buffets must be excellent. However, in listening to a performer on one at a Clarinetfest, I felt that I heard a sound from a greenline that was not as resonant as a regular R13. Maybe it's all in my head. One wonders if a solid all plastic clarinet made by Buffet might be a great idea, especially if it were made out of material as used in Van Doren or Zinner mouthpieces. I've heard some marvelous sounding solid plastic oboes but haven't heard the greenline oboes yet.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-07-03 12:55
Wes wrote:
>
> ... One wonders if a
> solid all plastic clarinet made by Buffet might be a great
> idea, especially if it were made out of material as used in Van
> Doren or Zinner mouthpieces.
These mouthpieces are made of hard rubber not plastic. In the past (first half of the 20th century), there were professional grade clarinets made of this and they were very good. For some reason though, this material has fallen out of favor for the clarinet body. Perhaps it is due to the fact that over time, hard rubber degrades if left exposed to light and/or heat.
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