 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-20 23:29
Is there a recommended order when studying the 32 Rose Etudes? So far I have learned #1, then #7.
Are there any resources that discuss how to approach them and what each etude is designed to impart?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-21 01:09
I find them well ordered in terms of "fast" vs. "slow" and progressive in terms of more difficulty toward the back. Unfortunately I can't think of a written protocol regarding approach. I think it is more healthy to think of them like scales. You use them as YOU wish in terms of the task at hand such as staccato, legato, dynamics, rubato, etc., etc.
Of course I'd suggest having at least gone over some of the 40 Etudes first.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-21 01:19
Ah. So the "40 Etudes" are not just the "32" plus 8 more?
Certainly the two I have played thus far are quite ingenious in terms of exposing any weaknesses in technique.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2019-08-21 01:41
The 40 Rose Studies were taken and adapted from the works of the great violinists and violin teachers of the 18th and 19th century.
All of the Rose 32 studies (with the exception of #22) were taken from Ferling's 48 Etudes for Oboe, op.31.
Bonade used the Rose 40 and Rose 32 as the foundation of his teaching.
He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that those books contained 90% of the preparation one would need to be an orchestral player.
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-22 05:05
GBK - I didn't know that! Great information! Makes total sense. I totally agree that these studies are very difficult and perfect preparation to get into college and to study in college, as well as after college.
Maybe you or someone can advise. There was a player who recorded one of these books. I cannot recall who and if the recording is still available now. Was it Harold Wright? I've only heard about it.
It sure would be nice to bring back this recording.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-22 07:59
Thanks Rolf!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: GBK
Date: 2019-08-22 08:27
Pianist John Walker has written and recorded original piano accompaniments for all 32 Rose Clarinet Etudes. They are available by themselves on CD and published by Carl Fischer. It's a great play-along tool to use when playing by yourself and it gives a whole new harmonic perspective to the Rose 32.
In addition, Chris Hill has recorded the entire Rose 32 together with John Walker playing his original piano accompaniments.
https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Etudes-Christopher-Hill-Walker/dp/B000MGTMPG
...GBK
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2019-08-22 08:28
Harold Wright made home recordings of a few of them. Not sure they've been made public but I've had access to them.
Robert Listokin recorded them all, supposedly under the direct supervision of Bonade. You can find these on Youtube. Alexey G is currently recording them and you can also find his efforts to date on Youtube.
Many of the John Hill/Chris Walker recordings mentioned above are also on Youtube, and the whole album is on some of the streaming services, Spotify at least.
Anders
Post Edited (2019-08-22 08:31)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-08-22 15:58
nellsonic wrote:
> Many of the John Hill/Chris Walker recordings mentioned above
> are also on Youtube, and the whole album is on some of the
> streaming services, Spotify at least.
Chris Hill and John Walker.
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-22 18:12
Still no answer on a pedagogical approach to the sequencing of the 32 etudes.
Did Rose or Bonade have a particular order that they felt was most beneficial?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-08-23 00:25
I didn't study with Rose or Bonade, but I did study with Anthony Gigliotti and before that with two of his students and also with two other clarinetists who had studies with Bonade at Curtis. They all assigned the etudes in both the 40 Studies and the 32 Studies in the published sequence. There was no ranking in terms of difficulty and no attempt by any of my teachers to group them. They aren't published in a sequence of increasing difficulty and each one individually features certain technical issues as well as more overarching musical ones.
There were a couple of etudes over the course of the three books that Gigliotti skipped, as had the other teachers. I have to assume that they may have been following Bonade's own example in teaching those books.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-08-23 00:36
tdufka wrote:
> Are there any resources that discuss how to approach them and
> what each etude is designed to impart?
You can pretty much see what each is meant to strengthen. There are ones that concentrate on staccato, some on legato, some slow espressivo, some dance-like, there's (as I remember) one polacca, one (I think the last one) staccato moto perpetuo in B major. All different combinations of problems. Almost all musically satisfying.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-08-23 00:40
GBK wrote:
> All of the Rose 32 studies (with the exception of #22) were
> taken from Ferling's 48 Etudes for Oboe, op.31.
>
I once downloaded a set of the Ferling oboe studies from IMSLP and was surprised to find that the Rose versions in the 32 Studies were extended considerably from the Ferling versions. I don't have a published version of Ferling. Were the ones I downloaded truncated from the originals, or did Rose expand them?
Karl
Post Edited (2019-08-23 00:40)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2019-08-23 02:09
As I once wrote - All of the Rose 32 (with the exception of #22) were taken from the original oboe "48 Etudes by Ferling, Op. 31"
Actually, there are only 3 of the original Ferling Studies that Rose kept in the same key signature when he adapted them for clarinet (Rose #17, #18 and #27)
I've always felt that the exercises from the original Ferling 48 were much more difficult than the Rose adaption when he used 31 of them for clarinet.
The Ferling 48 Studies have more interesting articulation and many more ornamental figures (grace notes, turns, trills, etc...), making them a greater challenge to play correctly. You will also see different notes, different time signatures, and wide skips. The clarinet version of the Rose 32 seem almost sterile by comparison.
I would also strongly suggest purchasing the Marcel Mule (Leduc) version of the Ferling 48. Mule added 12 more studies to the original 48, making a total of 60 exercises.
Mule completed the cycle of keys by adding 2 studies in each of the enharmonic keys of Cb minor, Ab minor, Gb minor, C# major, A# minor and D# minor.
Ab minor? A# minor? Cb minor?
Guaranteed to make you stop in your tracks.
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-23 02:20
Thank you for the responses. Great information. As GBK wrote the books were not taken in any order, but often taught together. The slow pieces were often harder than the faster pieces because of the delicateness in needed in preparing. I think it depends on the player which etudes are the most difficult to prepare. Some take a week and others may take much longer to master. Same with the old Bonade Orchestra Excerpts. Another must to master in college, but I'm not sure if it is available. I think I heard it was not.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: GBK
Date: 2019-08-23 02:23
Here is a reference chart which I made for my students.
The Rose 32 exercise # is given first, the Ferling exercise # is in parenthesis:
1 (5) 17 (17)
2 (6) 18 (18)
3 (7) 19 (35)
4 (8) 20 (32)
5 (1) 21 (33)
6 (2) 22 (--)
7 (3) 23 (41)
8 (4) 24 (30)
9 (21) 25 (11)
10 (22) 26 (12)
11 (27) 27 (29)
12 (16) 28 (42)
13 (9) 29 (13)
14 (10) 30 (14)
15 (31) 31 (25)
16 (20) 32 (26)
BTW - Hite, in his edition, changes the order of Rose exercises
14, 15, 16 and 17 ..... to 17, 14, 15 and 16
As far as practicing the Rose 32, there are 16 "fast" ones and 16 slow(er) ones. Why not practice one of each per week?
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-23 04:10
GBK - Great advice! But as far as 1 per week I'm not sure if everyone can do all of these. But maybe they can go back later and review the ones which presented problems and then master them! It's really good advice. Way to go.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-23 06:49
Thanks to GBK and everyone for this advice! Now to start another etude; probably # 6 since it is on the facing page from#7, my last "dance."
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