 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2019-08-12 01:04
I noticed on a couple Spanish sites (maybe other European countries too, I didn't check), equivalent model clarinets seem way cheaper.
e.g. R13 Prestige for 3,910 euro (~$4400): https://www.trinomusic.com/catalogo/viento-madera/clarinetes/clarinete-sib/clarinete-buffet-r13-prestige-bc1133l-2-0
It looks like an R13 Prestige goes for around $6700 on wwbw: https://www.wwbw.com/Buffet-Crampon-Prestige-R13-Bb-Clarinet-462809
Even accounting for duties on imports to the US, which appear to be no more than 6% according to https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/374/~/duty-on-imports-of-musical-instruments-%28i.e.%2C-keyboard%2C-piano%2C-string%2C-guitar%2C, it's still way cheaper.
What am I missing?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-12 01:18
Well the dollar to euro's is way down. Could this be what you mean?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2019-08-12 01:22
I didn't consider that. Even so, with such a disparity in price, why doesn't everyone in the US get their clarinets from Europe? The price difference is so big, that it would cover air fare and hotel if you wanted to pick up the instrument personally. That's why I feel like I must be missing something.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2019-08-12 06:33
Right now, with the USD so strong against the GBP, it's ridiculous how inexpensive some instruments are. At today's exchange rate, a Buffet R-13 from Howarth is $2,574.03.
Of course, there is the addition of the $75+ for CITES paperwork and the several weeks' delay, plus another $100 or so for shipping. Then, for warranty service, you would have to get it through the seller, which can be problematic if they are thousands of miles away on the other side of the planet.
Given some of the quality control issues we've been seeing with some instruments, it's too much of a risk.
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-13 02:41
The disparity in costs between the US and Europe is troubling.
It is pretty easy to call a shop in Paris or London to find pricing. I am finding that it is about 30-35% less for the identical instrument.
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Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2019-08-13 03:28
It's not just the exchange rate, it's Buffet's absurd "Minimum Sales Price" policy which keeps the US price artificially high. Other manufacturers do this as well.
If someone (not me . . .ok, well, yeah, kinda me) wanted to upgrade their bass to a Tosca, it'd be cheaper to fly to Copenhagen (airfare, meals, etc. included) and buy one with Wolfgang Lohff's full-on Soloist setup than it would be to buy one with the factory set-up in the US. Warranty and quality control would not be issues in such a case.
Jordan
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-08-14 03:12
jeeves wrote:
"I noticed on a couple Spanish sites (maybe other European countries too, I didn't check), equivalent model clarinets seem way cheaper...
What am I missing?"
Hi Jeeves,
You are not missing anything.
The clarinets are cheaper in Europe vs. USA.
Three months ago, we went on vacation to Amsterdam. I was able to buy a R13 Prestige from a small shop near Amsterdam for much less then I would pay in the States. In fact, I would not be able to afford to buy it here.
It helped that another store was running a sale on the R13 Prestige, so the shop where I went matched their sale price.
Downside: after three day of playing, I noted that it became somewhat difficult to assemble and disassemble the middle joint (and I only played 15-20 min. a day then).
I contacted the shop and they told me that they would take the clarinet back if I did not want it any more, or I could fix it locally since the repair was not a complicated one.
Since I know a good tech, I had him fix the problem- he shaved the tenon of the upper joint slightly.
After three more days of playing, the middle joint and the upper joints became tight, so I had the tech to check the clarinet again- this time he found the insides of lower joint and barrel sockets to be slightly out of round so he fixed that.
The tech said that all new clarinets, not only Buffets, have this problem - the wood is unstable and changes shape when you start using a new clarinet.
Anyway, at the end of the day, I believe that it was worth to have those small troubles with the new clarinet because it sounds better than my old R13.
Because we went to Amsterdam on vacation, we only spent about $30-40 to get to the shop, which is located in Edam, 30 min. bus ride from Amsterdam.
The town of Edam is a tourist attraction, anyway.
However, I do not know if it would make much sense financially if I went to Europe purposely to buy a clarinet.
If you can afford to charge your credit card a few thousand dollars, you can order 2-3 clarinets online, with the stipulation that you can return the one(s) you do not like.
Most of the shops in Europe (UK, Holland,, France) have very similar prices.
Shipping to the US is about $100-150, and the same for return shipping so ordering 2-3 instruments online and returning 1-2 of them could be cheaper then flying to Europe and spending money on food, transportation and possibly on one night in a hotel.
No jet lag either.
my 2p
PS
A bass clarinet player in a band I am with recently bought a new LeBlanc bass that developed the same problem- the tenon "swelled up" making it very difficult to take apart esp. after the rehearsal.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2019-08-14 11:46
> all new clarinets, not only Buffets, have this problem
If they said "some" new clarinets, I might agree with that. But since I just went through the process of helping a few folks acquire completely new sets instruments from another brand that haven't exhibited any of these issues, I don't believe that statement is accurate.
Perhaps the quality control of some brands is better than others.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-08-15 16:15
gwie wrote:
> > all new clarinets, not only Buffets, have this problem
>
> If they said "some" new clarinets, I might agree with that. But
> since I just went through the process of helping a few folks
> acquire completely new sets instruments from another brand that
> haven't exhibited any of these issues, I don't believe that
> statement is accurate.
>
> Perhaps the quality control of some brands is better than
> others.
Well, I only repeated what my tech said.
The tech in the shop where I bought the instrument said, "As a rule almost all new Buffets need some adjusments done before sale and Yamahas can be played right of of the case but people buy Buffets because they sound better".
Again, personally I have no experience with other brands, I just wanted to answer to the OP with my personal experience.
IF I went to Europe purposely to buy a clarinet I would try other brands too, but we were on vacation and after 1/2 hour in the store my wife and daughter said, "OK we want to see the town.."
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Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2019-08-16 06:45
m1964 - I know the shop you're talking about, actually went there myself a half-dozen years ago when I was in Amsterdam for a conference. It's a beautiful town, and the folks at the store were very nice. I had purchased my bass clarinet from them online about 15 years ago, when there were none to be found here in the US- the price was much, much lower as well.
I generally wouldn't bother going anywhere solely to save on an instrument, but combining that with a (and mostly paid for via savings) vacation could be a lot of fun.
Jordan
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Author: m1964
Date: 2019-08-16 22:34
Jordan Selburn wrote:
> m1964 - I know the shop you're talking about, actually went
> there myself a half-dozen years ago when I was in Amsterdam for
> a conference. It's a beautiful town, and the folks at the store
> were very nice. I had purchased my bass clarinet from them
> online about 15 years ago, when there were none to be found
> here in the US- the price was much, much lower as well.
>
> I generally wouldn't bother going anywhere solely to save on an
> instrument, but combining that with a (and mostly paid for via
> savings) vacation could be a lot of fun.
>
Hi Jordan,
Yes traveling to the town was fun and we enjoyed being there.
Getting a new clarinet was just the icing on the cake- well, a lot of "icing".
However, having such a nice instrument motivates me to practice more…
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-08-17 17:02
Don't you have to declare it comeing into the country and pay an import tax? How much would that be anyone know?
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-08-17 19:17
If you bring personal instruments into the country yourself, you rarely pay a duty. I declared a set of S&Ss at full value on the form, and was directed to the "nothing to declare" line. I believe there's a hefty exemption for stuff acquired out of the country. Having instruments shipped might be a different thing, though.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-08-18 17:18
Interesting about the tax if you bring the instrument in, I didn't realize that. I remember when I had a new custom bass clarinet case shipped to me I had to go to the post office and pay a hefty import tax.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2019-08-18 20:45
Ed Palanker wrote:
> Interesting about the tax if you bring the instrument in, I
> didn't realize that. I remember when I had a new custom bass
> clarinet case shipped to me I had to go to the post office and
> pay a hefty import tax.
>
I believe that customs duty is owed regardless. For the United States, the duty rate on woodwinds is 4.9%, with a few countries being excepted (mainly Canada, Mexico, with a handful of others).
That said, there are multiple examples of times where the Customs office neglected to collect this duty when individuals imported instruments.
Jordan
Post Edited (2019-08-18 20:46)
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