 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SoundWeebJay
Date: 2019-07-30 07:32
Hey folks! Hopefully this hasn't been asked before (I attempted to do my research before hand...)
So I've been playing Bass Clarinet for almost 3 years now, not very consistently, save for maybe the past 6 months or so. (I've also played Clarinet for about 8 years now). Here's my ordeal:
A lot of people seem to have issues with higher notes, but my issue is actually the lower register of Bass Clarinet. Most of the time, notes come out well, but sometimes, depending on how I attack the note (typically for staccato) I get a partial jump/honk. From what I've gathered from other Youtube videos I have watched, I have been led to believe this is a voicing issue...But I would like opinions and ideas, as this only seems to happen from about B 2 and lower... I'm fairly certain the instrument is in decent condition, as it plays fairly well aside from this little hiccup.
If this does happen to be my embouchure, what can I do to help adjust it?
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2019-07-30 08:34
It's possible that you're voicing too high and/or biting too hard, but that really sounds like a leak. I don't know how accessible a good technician is to you, but I'd recommend taking the horn to one.
In my years of playing the bass clarinet, I've found that it is by far the most sensitive to small leaks. Get it checked out so you can be sure you're not driving yourself crazy trying to correct for something that's not your fault.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-07-30 13:01
You can run a check on what the pads are doing with that strip that comes off the wrapper of a box of Vandoren reeds. Protrude the end of the strip under the four cardinal directions of a pad while closing it with normal pressure. Gently tug at it. You'll find most of the time it will resist being pulled out fairly authoritatively. Chances are you'll pick up the one or two pads where there is no grip at all.
If you're lucky, that will happen at a place where there is an adjustment screw that can be tightened (or loosened).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2019-07-30 13:48
You probably watched it but just incase:
https://youtu.be/SfhSDtHNh94
Assuming that there is nothing wrong with the pads, reed or mouthpiece. I have 6 bcl mouthpieces, all fine except for a Vandoren with uneven rails(squeaker).
Post Edited (2019-07-30 14:01)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-07-30 16:37
I'm assuming if it were a leak it would happen all the time not just sometimes. Leaks don't only happen now and then. My take is that you sometimes voice to high and or pinch slightly. Try to voice slightly lower and relax your embouchure a bit and instantly bring it back to "normal" so you don't play flat.
The way I alwayed played bass in my long career was having a little pressure with my top teeth against the mouthpiece to hold it secure and a relaxed lower jaw. Not loose but not too firm. Of course I play with my teeth on the top, not double lip.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2019-07-30 16:40)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-07-30 19:49
After thought. I one of the springs is a little weak the pad might pop up sometimes. Check the tension to see. I always used a sliver of cigarette paper or pad paper, to test for leaky pads or weak springs.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: JJB
Date: 2019-07-30 20:27
I'm new to bass (and still struggling with the upper notes as you mention). I had the same problem as you did with the lower notes at first, especially with staccato. I can't remember if I got the advice here or if it was in a video...I watched a lot of Michael Lowenstern's videos. Anyway, what solved the problem for me was making sure I had extra air support ready before I attacked the notes. I'm sorry I can't find a link for you with a more complete explanation.
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Author: SoundWeebJay
Date: 2019-07-30 21:18
Hey all! Thanks so so much for all this wonderful advice! This problem has been wracking my brain forever and when I try to find it online, not many people seem to voice that they have a similar issue. I'm really hoping it's just my voicing/air support, as I really don't have the money nor the time at this moment to find a repair person, or pay for it to be fixed if it IS a leaking problem. As it only happens sometimes, I'm hoping it really is just me. Thanks again for this! I will keep this in mind moving forward, and if anyone has any other suggestions, I'm all ears!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-07-30 23:22
SoundWeebJay wrote:
> I'm really hoping it's just my voicing/air
> support, as I really don't have the money nor the time at this
> moment to find a repair person, or pay for it to be fixed if it
> IS a leaking problem. As it only happens sometimes, I'm hoping
> it really is just me.
The problem with that approach is that, if it IS a leaking problem, nothing you do is going to solve it and you may develop many bad habits and endure lots of frustration trying to fix the wrong problem. In the end, if it IS a leak problem you won't solve it until you get the leak fixed. Hoping won't change the actual cause.
I know Ed P emphasized that he plays with his top teeth on the mouthpiece. But when I had a very similar problem as a grad student years ago on a soprano clarinet, I solved it by (temporarily as my teacher and I intended) switching to double lip. I was squeezing the reed as I moved my tongue, and the double lip helped me stabilize my embouchure and better control the pressure I was applying to the reed. The squeaks stopped. As things worked out, I ended up making the change permanent, but once you find out if it helps, you can easily go back to single lip with the knowledge of how your embouchure controlled the reed when you were using both lips.
This isn't a recommendation that you play bass double lip permanently. I play bass with a single lip embouchure most of the time, even though I still play soprano with double lip. It's more a remedial suggestion that may help or not, depending on what the actual cause of the problem is.
Karl
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2019-07-31 00:11
One other thing that no one has mentioned is the movement of your jaw. I'm one for keeping everything as still as possible after I discovered alot of jaw movement on each articulation, once I was able to immobilise this movement the squeaks went away. Try playing in front of a mirror or record yourself to see if this might be causing the squeaks.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: SoundWeebJay
Date: 2019-07-31 01:28
Good things to note. I believe I may have noticed some jaw movement amongst these articulations. I will definitely be recording myself and checking for this along with the other suggestions! Thanks so much!
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2019-07-31 07:04
After returning to playing bass a few years ago, I was experiencing the same thing. For me, it generally happened when I was bouncing up and down playing large intervals... only on the lower note.... and generally when the notes were marked staccato. Turned out I didn't have all the keys down (fully depressed) BEFORE the air flow resumed. My teacher is the one who figured out what was going on. We worked on staccato exercises and voila, problem solved.
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Author: SoundWeebJay
Date: 2019-07-31 07:38
Tucker, what about playing staccato low notes in succession? When no fingers are moving or anything? Any experience with that?
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2019-08-01 19:13
No, I didn't have that issue with straight staccatos.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-08-02 17:31
Karl, my point about playing with my top teeth on the MP was not about double or single lip. As i said, I keep more pressure on the top of the MP to stabilize it so I can relax my bottom jaw, and be flexible. Although I play single lip on clarinet I don't have to apply that pressure on the top of my clarinet MP to achieve the result I want.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-02 18:47
Hey Ed,
I had a question about your clarification about the "top of the mouthpiece pressure."
Are you saying that this pressure, in essence, places some flex on the bass' neck?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-02 23:33
You sure have some great advice above.
Also try different mouthpieces, tonguing, articulation seems to be a major factor. It could be a facing issue, slightly nicked facing, the table, bad tip, lots of problems. Sadly I can't test bass clarinets.
OK bass clarinet players what mouthpiece should he check out? This is not my field.
I would think that Eddie Palanker with 50 plus years with the Baltimore Sym. and the same amount of teaching experiences or more can guide you to a quality mouthpiece. Maybe he has some in stock from his teaching days, I don't know. I feel a lot of mouthpieces could benefit to be opened up a bit, allowing for more air to pass through the horn.
"attack the note (typically for staccato) I get a partial jump/honk. From what
I've gathered from other Youtube videos I have watched, I have been led to
believe this is a voicing issue...But I would like opinions and ideas, as this
only
seems to happen from about B 2 and lower... I'm fairly certain the instrument
is
in decent condition, as it plays fairly well aside from this little hiccup."
I'd surely look at mouthpieces, new and used, as it is also normal for bass clarinets to sound crappy and resistant in the upper register, with a bad mouthpiece.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-08-03 17:17
Paul, "I had a question about your clarification about the "top of the mouthpiece pressure."
Are you saying that this pressure, in essence, places some flex on the bass' neck?"
Not nearly that much pressure Paul, just as compared to playing the clarinet where I don't feel I have any more "pressure" than anyone else. It's not really "pulling down" on the mouthpiece, it's just enough with my top teeth to allow my lower jaw to be a little more relaxed and flexible and still have control on the mouthpiece. I guess It's a bit difficult to demonstrate with words. I hope you get the idea. Just so you understand the difference between the clarinet and bass. I always use something on my lower teeth to prevent cutting my lip because I have sharp teeth and use a "firmer" embouchure on clarinet that I do on bass. I don't consider it biting but I do take a lot of lip folded over my teeth and when playing and for extended times can cut slightly into my lower lip so I just use something on my lower teeth when playing clarinet. I don't do that when playing bass, no need, but if I'm switching back and forth I don't have to take it off when I switch to bass. Have I confused you yet Paul?
As far as a mouthpiece recommendation as Bob asked I suggest a medium to medium opened facing, not closed, not to opened. You have to try several to decide. I used a Selmer C* for years, then a Selmer McClune C* that he re- voiced. My back up was a Forbes RR facing. both in the medium range but everyone is different.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-08-03 17:37
Ed, thanks for the clarification. If fact, I discovered the same thing years ago, that on bass clarinet it helped free the reed and open my jaw to press more with my top teeth. I should have understood what you meant.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-08-04 17:22
I should add for anyone that continues reading this that in my playing I often take more or less MP in my mouth as I play depending on the register and the reed. It became an unconscience effort but the top on my mouthpiece has marks that indicate movement up and down meaning I don't keep my teeth in only a single place like I do on clarinet. Flexibility is the name of the game as well as goodd support, open throat, and no obstruction of the air flow from the tongue.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-04 18:21
Thanks for that Ed. Yeah I was a bit confused in the initial description. With soprano, you only have "grabbing the mouthpiece, or not." On bass, because you're basically anchored to the floor, there are other options. Whatever the specific approach to bass becomes, it is ALWAYS completely different from soprano.......but worth it.
............Paul Aviles
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