 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-07-27 12:23
I have noticed that a few manufacturers advertise: "wild cane from the Var", France. Does that mean anything? Is there such a thing as "wild cane" as opposed to the cultivated variety. The Marca Excel that I've been using for the last couple of days claims it uses wild cane ("roseaux sauvages"). I have found it so wild that I have had to slap it a few times in order to keep it in line!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kilo
Date: 2019-07-27 13:04
"Wild", eh? I've only gotten as far as the "free range" variety. No added hormones. GMO cane's right around the corner. Seriously, I think it's more a marketing thing, something to make the brand stand out a bit. I doubt that the acoustic properties differ from plantation-grown cane.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-07-28 01:36
kilo: at least I know that an oboist friend of mine picks her cane by the railway tracks somewhere in the Var. She claims that it is far superior to anything plantation-grown. But then again, she may prefer wild cane because she's pretty wild herself!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2019-07-28 02:27
ruben wrote:
> kilo: at least I know that an oboist friend of mine picks her
> cane by the railway tracks somewhere in the Var. She claims
> that it is far superior to anything plantation-grown. But then
> again, she may prefer wild cane because she's pretty wild
> herself!
And doesn't have to pay for it?
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2019-07-28 06:45
The Oboe section of the NZSO used to collect their cane from a stand behind the hotel they stayed in when performing in Rotorua (our National (govt funded) orchestra used to tour extensively throughout the year, playing lots of smaller towns- now they only visit the main centres a few times a year).
For many years they used this source to make their reeds - eventually the word got out to a few too many people and it started getting harder to find good tubes, then the cane was chopped out for a development in the 1990s.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-07-28 09:59
Karl: No. She doesn't have to pay for it. But she doesn't let her favourite spots be known. It's like picking mushrooms: you don't let on where exactly you pick them.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-07-28 17:20
Rumour has it (fake news?) that Vandoren doesn't just use cane from the Var; that they import their cane from Argentina (Gonzales, I imagine). There is nothing wrong with this as long as you don't put "Cane from the Var"on the box if it's not true.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-07-30 01:58
I kinda know a lot about cane and wild cane, also Var cane.
The Var region is a very special area in France. I prefer cultivated cane which gets the right amount of water during the growing seasons. It can't be beat.
Here's the problem. The Var region in France has become a resort area because it's located so close to the ocean. The land value is out control now and it's so hard to buy land. So people or companies hunt for WILD cane. There is your answer. It's bad news!
The problem is this cane has not been fertilized, it can be deprived of water, and the age of the cane is often unknown. Once the cane reaches about 13 feet it stops growing. I don't want to tell you what happens after this 13 foot mark. I do have secrets regarding this subject. I can say if the wild cane gets too much water, such as growing along river beds it's too soft, and if it is grown by railroad tracks it's probably lacking water and it won't play very well either.
The Var region can also get hit by snow inland. This can kill the cane structure. The reeds won't vibrate. Think about oranges. If the temperature drops below 32F or 0C the oranges are dead. You can't eat them. Same thing with cane.
So wild cane sometimes is not a good thing at all. This is why a lot of the Vandoren and Rico reeds really suck. Very few reeds come from the Var region anymore. They lost all of this great land to the high priced ocean view Var properties. Now these companies get most of their cane from other counties and this is why your reeds only last a few days to a week or so. Those days are gone when a reed would last for 2 to 3 months or more.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-07-30 09:52
Bob: Thank you! -very informative and eminently sensible analysis.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-07-30 11:26
Glad to help Ruben!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2019-07-31 19:22
Might it make sense to grow the plant in a greenhouse that was protected from frost?
If it was done in a place where land value was low, and heat from an adjacent factory could be used to heat the greenhouse, then that might be okay financially and environmentally.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-02 02:45
SunnyDaze - No, it would have to be a huge greenhouse. Maybe a mile large. For example Rico sells about 25 million reeds a year. Vandoren isn't too far behind this. Added a lot of the cane is rejected, maybe 1/3 just because of color, hardness, bugs, and an assortment of other issues, such as thickness and much more. So in short you are looking at tons and tons of lost cane. There are secrets these companies won't give out either regarding curing the cane after it's been cut. Again more cane is thrown out at this stage. Such as the time of year, how long, the storage time, how hot it is, how often do you turn the cane, when do you cut them, which cane is used for assorted saxes, oboes, English horns and assorted clarinets. I know all of these secrets. Plus stuff Vandoren and Rico don't know. For example I often can taste where the cane comes from and by just sanding the butt end of the reed I pretty much know by 98 percent pinpoint accuracy how good or bad the reeds will play. This is why I often make my own reeds lately. So if I'm gonna make a reed in 25 minutes I surely don't want to make a dud. :}
Added reed companies use 220 grit sandpaper to sand the bottom of the reeds. This allows reeds to warp badly. This sucks at so many levels. Dirt gets into the reeds, water, so you need yo flatten the reed and then the strength drops down. So long story short these darn companies should be using 600 grit. After a week or so I use 3000 grip to polish and seal the bottom of the reeds.
Even if a player grows his/hers own cane in a greenhouse it won't play for several reasons. humidity control, finding great rhizones to start with, and the knowledge to cut the cane, cure it, and actually make the final reed.
Another fact to remember if you plant the first the cane takes about 5 years before the beginning s crops to an actual playable reed. Players don't want to wait 2 years yo test reeds.
Rico can cut a reed in 5 seconds. Vandoren cuts reeds in 8 seconds. If you make your own reeds, which I do at the moment, it takes about 25 minutes and I'm fast. Most players don't want to do this, they would rather practice.
It's about 4AM and I have a concert tomorrow.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2019-08-03 13:47)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2019-08-03 18:37
Thanks for explaining Bob. It all sounds so interesting.
I'd love to see a write-up of just the parts that we need to know in order to adjust the commercial reeds really nicely to work for our own needs.
It's interesting that that the Oboe players know how to do that for their reeds, but it is not really well known among clarinet players how to sort out reeds for their own needs.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2019-08-03 18:40
I found these two articles that look good:
Annals of Botany
Volume 81, Issue 1, January 1998, Pages 151-155
Regular article
Anatomical Characteristics Affecting the Musical Performance of
Clarinet Reeds Made fromArundo donaxL. (Gramineae)
PETERKOLES
ALANMILLS
MARGARETSEDGLEY
A Research Study of a Technique for Adjusting Clarinet Reeds
Lawrence J. Intravaia and Robert S. Resnick
Source: Journal of Research in Music Education, Vol. 16, No. 1
(Spring, 1968), pp. 45-58
I managed to download the second one, and will nip down the University computer room to try to get the other soon.
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