 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Richard
Date: 2001-06-25 19:18
Hi. I'm sorry, I don't mean to depress everybody but I'm kind of disillusioned with the clarinet. I did think I was quite good - I'm working on grade 8 stuff at the moment and play in quite a lot of concerts ( & I'm 16 & live near York in England) - but gradually I'm kind of realising I'm not. First, I bite loads - my embouchre is useless really, and I'm trying to stop biting but its hard. I've tried using double lip but it makes me grip the keys too much, and makes articulation difficult. Second, my tonguing is pathetic - pretty slow and uncertain - I did anchor tongue, but I'm trying to relearn articulation tip to tip, and I'm not sure if I'm doing that right or not. So my embouchre's wrong, I can't tongue right - what does that leave me with. I do have a private teacher, but he never talks about technical stuff like this with me - I've just picked all this stuff up from books and other clarinettists. But I couldn't get a different teacher because he's such a nice person. All the stuff you're supposed to be able to do as a clarinettist makes my head spin, and I'm probably not that bad, it'll just take some work...
But if anyone can help me with what your tongue should actually be doing and knows a good way of learning it, or how to help my embouchre etc., I'd be really grateful.
(like I say, I'm really sorry to moan, but playing the clarinet is what I want to do professionally, and I feel a bit useless at the moment)
Thanks,
Richard
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-06-25 19:36
The tonguing issue has been addressed many times on this board just do a search on tonguing and articulation and you will find very good advice. You should also look for double lip or biting too.
However, none of this advice is better than a good teacher. If you are really serious about clarinet and you feel your teacher is not up to the task anymore you should change. The sooner you get rid of bad habits the faster you'll improve in the future. It is sometimes better to have less lessons with a wonderful (but often expensive) teacher than sticking with somebody nice but not very helpful.
If becoming a professional is what you want you will need a bit of talent, lots of work and lots of good advice and counsel from a good teacher.
Best of luck,
-Sylvain
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Author: connie
Date: 2001-06-25 19:49
OK, you've really set yourself up for some snappy comebacks from us old-timers trying to learn! At 16, you have PLENTY of time to work on your weaknesses. I think it's great that you even recognize where the problems lie...when I was 16, I wasn't there yet.
A few thoughts...first, might it be possible to have a "one-time" lesson or assessment with another teacher, who might be able to look at what you're doing with your bite or your tongue and offer some specific adjustments?
My teacher had me do a tonguing exercise he calls "cricket". you use the tip of your tongue, and kind of bounce it very lightly in a "Ti'ti" (short i) like you're saying "cricket" really fast. Do it a few times to get it very light and fast, then try it with the mouthpiece in your mouth on an easy note, like an open G. Your tongue should lightly bounce across the reed, just enough to stop the vibration. Go back and forth saying, then playing, the ti-ti. He had me make up my own scale exercises with it, first accenting the first syllable, then after that was solid, accenting the second. The next step is a threesome, like in the end of the William Tell overture, which the brass players would cheat on and triple-tongue. I'm still perfecting the switch from anchor tonguing, but it gets better all the time. My practice time with the horn is limited, so I practice tonguing while I'm singing in the car, trying to make sure my jaw doesn't move.
Biting and gripping hard are signs of tension in your playing. Whenever you catch yourself doing that, stop playing, relax, play something simple to get the feel of the jaw or hands loose again, then you can go back to what you were practicing.
Hang in there, you can do it...I'm sure you'll hear from others on the BB. They've been really helpful to me with these types of problems.
connie
(47 and still learning)
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-25 20:08
May I make a suggestion? I can tell you care about your teacher & do not want to hurt your teacher's feelings. Teachers play many role's, perform many tasks .. they really help us in many ways ---- for myself, my teacher plays an important role as Advisor.
There is nothing wrong with working w/more than 1 individual --- 2 teachers, even more. [Of course, you have to manage the cost (balancing frequency with $$$) but there is nothing wrong with _ADDING_ an advisor --- this need only be occasional].
It is quite normal to have this happen with a public school teacher & a private lesson teacher ... &, maybe, a summer camp, clinic or symposium instructor. Think about it, it happens with Master Classes all the time.
Best,
mw
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Author: Carl L
Date: 2001-06-25 21:13
Richard- if playing horn is really what you want to do with your life...hang tough. All musicians ( from greenhorn to professional) go through tough spells. Heck, after decades of playing instruments there are times I listen to myself practice (or worse, during a performance) and say to myself, " Is that noise really coming from me!?" Then a fellow player comes up and tells you, "Man, we really rocked tonight! Great sets! Great playing!"
Hey, music is a craft. Playing an instrument is work- wonderful, fulfilling work- but work just the same. Chuck Dallenbach( tubist for Canadian Brass) once spoke to us at a symposium about "plateaus of improvement". What he was saying in essence, was that improvement on an instrument is an un-going process. Often we don't see the forest for the trees because we can't guage our progress on a day to day basis. Paublo Casals said, "If I miss a day's practice, I can tell. If I miss two day's practice, my audience can tell..." Boy, wouldn't we ALL love to be that gifted, that in-tune with our playing. But, we mortals are not. Progress often seems slow, to professionals as well as the beginner. Arnold Jacobs once said, "If you're satisfied with your playing... put the horn away and look for another line of work..." Work through those moments of depression, Richard. Be critical and have the drive to improve. You had better HAVE the drive if you mean to make the clarinet your life's work. It ain't all beer and skittles, laddie, believe me. Being a professional musician is a long, hard road full of sacrifice and commitment. But, the journey is well worth it. I can't begin to picture my existence without music.(God DOES have a sense of humor- why else would he give us the desire to even BE musicians?)
Oh, my opinion on the teacher question is to find a teacher who challanges you. There's nothing wrong with "nice" teachers. But over the last 25-plus years of teaching, I personally find those I've reached best were those I challanged to better themselves. Search for a teacher who charts your progress and makes you strive for constant improvement. Stop being so hard on yourself. Now go practice!
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-06-26 01:43
I used to have all of your problems: slow anchor tongue, biting, and a nice teacher that didn't help much. First I changed my teacher, which was hard, but helped so very much.
The other problems, (for me), I think, were solved by one major change: relaxation. When I actually relaxed my whole body, (not just focusing on "not biting," or whatever), when the body is relaxed, tonguing becomes easier, biting eases up. You really can play in all registers of the instrument while feeling as relaxed as if you had just spent all day lying in the grass in the warm sunshine. Try standing up, and fully relax your body, from the shoulders all the way down, make every muscle feel heavy, then don't change a thing--and just let yourself play. Compare that to TRYING as HARD AS YOU CAN to do EVERTYING right, and see what happens.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-06-26 02:24
When I purchased a book written by Charles Neidich and Ayako Ohshima titled Training Book for Clarinet published Ongaku-no-tomosya, I instantly regreted I did not have this book at your age. Although I cannot translate all of this Japanese book. Let me show you only its index as in below. Each exercise should be categorized and pin-pointed on a special purpose not on an ambiguous one. However, quite often purposes are not shown by teachers properly although it is not necessarily always wrong thing since there are many type of students. I felt your frustration might come from this dilemma.
[I] Embouchure and breath
-How to inhale and exhale
-Position of tongue in oral cavity
-Embouchure
-Clarinet is an instrument of harmonics( See 'my' remark below)
(1)Exercises to strengthen embouchure
(2)Exercises to articulate clearly and on-time
(3)Exercises to extremely relax embouchure
(4)Exercises to find out better tones
(5)Intervals(Scales Exercises)
(6)Three special fingerings to find out the correct tongue positons for altissimos
(7)Altissimo exercises
(8)Exercises to beautifully diminuendo altisimmos
(9)Exercise for breath support
[II] Movement of Fingers
-Basic way of using fingers
(1)Exercises to increase numbers of used fingers
(2)Bigger intervals exercises
(3)Finger exercises to play Mi-flat and Si-flat
(4)Exercises to get free right hand nuckle movement
(5)Pincky fingers exercises
(6)Exercises to get more efficient pinky movements
(7)How to sense your fingers when you play middle fa to fa-sharp or fa-sharp to fa.
(8)The correct position of fingers for middle la
(9)Exercises to move from tones with no-registe key to those with register keys
(10)Important way of using fingers to play leaps in legato
(11)Exercises to concentrate your sense on the left hand thumb.
(12)Rythmic repetitions
[III] Tonguing
-Principle of tonguing
(1)Exercises to know by your body on tongue movement and tongue touching
position on reed symultaneously
(2)Exercises to move fingers and tongue correctly/symultaneously
(3)Exercises to tongue faster
-Examples of alternative altissimo fingerings(charts)
Remarks
[I]They show tongue should be set on the very slightly different position to emit each harmonics tone with the same fingering.
This is the contact of the publihser:
Ongaku No Tomo Sha Co. 6-30 Kagurazaka Sinjuku-ku, Tokyo 162-8716, Japan
Telephone 81-3-3235-2111
If Neidigh comes to England and undergo an open lessons, you might better join.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-06-26 02:31
P.S.
Neidich studied in USSR well before its collapse into CIS. His meticulous way might come from this experiences of his.
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Author: Stephanie
Date: 2001-06-26 03:36
Hey! I just goota say, I know exactly how you feel. I'm also 16 and on many days, like today, I feel pretty bad. Thing is, I taught myself for the most part how to play. I started in 7th grade so that would mean I've been playing for 4 years or so. Well NEwayz, i go to tell ya, I'm finding lots of great advice and words of encouragement on this board. I guess I'll tell you to hang in there just like everyond else said. I truly know it's hard, but I think everything''ll be fine in the end. Ok, I"ve talked enough. Just rememvber, playing is supposed to be fun, so relax!
Happy clarineting
Stephanie
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Author: William
Date: 2001-06-26 03:39
Perhaps you are suffering from the "too hard reed" syndrome as you suggest that you can't stop biting and your articulation is sluggish. It is a common problem among clarinetists who play a lot to start relying on the reed strength for tone quality and volume instead of steady breath and embouchure support to "project" the sound. All of the above advice is great, but I would add, try a slightly softer reed set-up for a while, make certain that the reed is balanced for your mouthpiece, and see if some of your difficulties in articulation and tone support become less of a problem. And remember the old saying, "Rome was not built in a day." It sounds as if you might be expecting too much too soon. Progress is made one step at a time, and with enough steps accomplished, you will travel miles with your clarinet. As far as being satisfied with everything you are able to do with your clarinet, I don't think that any professional clarinetist has ever reached that point in his career where everything was perfect. There will always be something that will need practice and refining, no matter how good you get--but that is one of the joys of music. No matter how much you experiance in your playing career, there will always be something musical left to discover and enjoy. I think that I would be very sad if I had been everywhere on Earth and had everything imaginable in my possession--and nothing left to look forward too or to hope for. Sometimes, the "nowhere to go but up" situation can have many hidden blessings in the everyday accomplishments of regular practice and discovery. Keep your "way out there" goal of becoming a professional clarinetist some day and enjoy the little successes you will have every day as a result of your practice and playing experiance. Good luck and Good Clarineting!!!!!!
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Author: Nelson Heggen
Date: 2001-06-26 03:56
Richard:
I would suggest, in addition to all of the technical advice, a glance at the book Mastery by George Leonard. He talks about the long run of mastering any worthwhile endeavour and getting past our Western notions of easy and continuous gratification. That's not exactly right. It's more about finding the continous gratification inherent in pursuing a craft for its own sake and not worrying so much about results. While it would have been lost on me at your age, you sound mature and curious enough to benefit from it. Keep it up. NH
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-06-26 04:03
Hang in there Mate! Carl L hit the nail on the head mentioning those learning plateaus. There's been times I just wanted to trade my horn in on a triangle or something. It can get frustrating. I learned a wrong technique for tonging when I was your age. Add this to the fact the I had a bad speach impediment to start with. I had a terrible time umtil I found the right teacher who not only recognized the problem, BUT was able to come up with a solution for me to work on. Now I'm much better, not great, but having terribly good time playing my clarinets.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-06-26 05:56
Two things I would like to add as suggestion:
[1]There are two kinds of teachers: one is nice and another is caustic.
'Nice' teacher may be good as a friend or a teacher to an connoiseur player but a caustic critic would be more favourable as a teacher to serious student. Many people says we should find out 'good' teachers. To be kind or to be nice should not be among the criteria of 'good'ness if you are serious. IMHO.
I know two examples.
1)Late Paul Taffanel, a famous flute professor at the Paris national conservatoir.
When his young students missed the same place twice, he said to the student:
'If you miss that another time, you don't need to come to Conservatoir again.'
2)Late Herbert L. Clark, a famous cornet player at the Sousa band.
When Claude Gordon was taking a lesson, Clark said to him.
'Blow more seriously' 'I do.' 'No!' Gordon was pushed down on the floor.
Got up. Play. Pushed down. This was repeated several times. When Gordon
finaly became mad and used wind power, Clark said 'Now you know you can!'
I like these two anecdotes very much. Their seriousness moves me.
[2]A non-clarinetist critic, if he is well meaning, is better than a know-it-all clarinetist, to whom you ask to demonstrate to get no results.
By the way the age of 16 is by no means too early to consider which occupational life should be taken and how. As to music, it may be rather late.
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2001-06-26 07:52
If you can play grade 8 stuff with all those faults, think what you'll be able to achieve when you've learned the proper techniques. I think I'm pretty good and I am struggling with stuff that's only grade 6. But playing the clarinet is still one of the most enjoyable things there is. Don't give up. You have so much potential and you will regret it for ever if you stop now.
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-06-26 12:16
Teachers come in more types than just nice or caustic. Teachers differ from each other as much as any other people do. If you change from your kind-hearted teacher to one who gives more advice, that doesn't mean you will end up with somebody cruel and harsh. I know how you feel about not wanting to hurt the feelings of your teacher or leave a teacher you like a lot, but what about asking your teacher to give you more criticism?
Did you talk to the teacher about these problems yet? Probably the teacher sees you as a nice person too, not the kind of student who does best with a teacher who yells and screams and then the student yells and screams right back! Maybe the teacher is careful not to be rushing you too much, and discouraging you with too much criticism, but doesn't realize you would actually prefer to get more advice.
If you want to get some supplement lessons, summer is a good time to do it without making the teacher feel abandoned. Maybe you could go to a summer program such as summer school or a music camp. You can get intense workshop and class experience there and at the end of the summer, it;s over, so if it's too intense at least there is a limit to it. Probably it;s too late to get in this year, but think about next summer.
Also, probably most of us went through the same type of frustration at some point where we knew enough to realize we didn't know everything! That's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. You have some specific goals of things to improve. That puts you way ahead of people who think they know it all! Good luck and hang in there.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-06-26 13:39
One thought I had is that (1) if you are biting too hard and (2) when you use a double-lip embouchure to stop the biting, you grip the keys too hard, you may be using your embouchure and/or fingers to stabilize the instrument. If this is the case, a neck strap should help you gain the stability that would allow you to loosen your embouchure or use double-lip without compromising you ability to articulate. It's also allowable to prop the bell of your instrument on your legs as you play.
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-06-26 17:34
Sounds like a good book Hiroshi. Maybe you and Mark C. should get together and do an english translation.
~ jerry
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Author: Richard
Date: 2001-06-27 19:55
Thankyou very much everyone - you've all helped a lot,
Richard
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