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 Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: rgoldem 
Date:   2019-07-19 04:20

What are the differences between a Vandoren M13 and a Selmer HS*? These mouthpieces have close specifications and are both well regarded. Do they play similarly?



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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-07-19 07:05

The tip openings are pretty close to the same. Around .99mm's to 1.01mm's or so. They are not exact. The bore of the Selmer is a tad bit smaller. The rails on the Selmer are thinner. The distance between the Selmer right and left rails are narrower and the depth of the chamber/baffle of the Selmer is shallower. Because of this being not as deep as the Vandoren the Selmer is a tad bit brighter in sound. But the sound does carry better very well.

The bad part of the Vandoren M series models is above High C they play flat. 438 on Buffet R13's. Something you need to be aware of unless you buy a 63 reverse tapered barrel. Then you might be OK; however some notes may tune sharp because of this and other notes may be dead sounding such as the E just below the the throat G# and A. Probably flat as well.

Because of this I'd take a diamond file and dig out the chamber of the Selmer HS* until the sound warms up because the qualities are better in the long run. Due to the thinner rails and narrower distance between the rails the sound has more ping/overtones to it and it's easier to articulate. Whereas with the Vandoren mouthpieces you may need to try out 10 to 15 to find 1 or 2 that play the same because the rubber shrinks too much, maybe 25 to 30 percent. Very stinky rubber.

So don't yell at me saying I'm wrong. First go test your wonderful Buffet's with the M13 mouthpieces and I'm sure you will find the upper register on the standard Buffet barrels play flat above high C. It's just a fact. Go buy a Korg tuner before making any comments. Yes the 1960's Buffets is a very different animal. I'm referring to the new horns. The old Buffels you can use a 66mm Moennig barrel.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-07-19 07:13

What is the distance in millimeters from the tip of the mouthpiece to where the reed and mouthpiece come together on the Selmer HS*?






.................Paul Aviles



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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Ed 
Date:   2019-07-19 20:07

The great Everett Matson used to do considerable work on these old Selmers. He would completely rework the baffle and inner dimensions and face them. It was often a couple of hours worth of work, but they played incredibly well, with a lovely ring and focus and depth.

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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-07-19 23:36

Yes I knew Matson, but not very well. He and Iggie Gennusa kinda were instrumental and why I got interested in mouthpieces. I then took it to a whole new level when designing special gauges to measure such parts of the mouthpieces which no one has been able to measure before, within less than a human hair. Such as the depth of the baffle/chamber areas, the taper of the bore, and of course 3 cavity molds and such. A lot of this I learned how to do while attending CalTech. This is exciting news being able to take the myths out of mouthpieces and adding science and computers to actual facts. There of course is having a great sound and FEEL to make very minor facing adjustments to fine tone of a mouthpiece so we really cannot take away the art of the musicians talents. Added is the ability to have tapered tools that can make bores bigger and of electrical tools to adjust the baffles and chambers of mouthpieces.

As I said before there is a huge difference between warm and dark. Warm is often confused with a mouthpiece being bright up close while you play. Your ears are playing tricks on you. You must remember this. What you are hearing is NOT brightness but a ping to the sound referred to overtones. When playing on some mouthpieces such as some of the Zinner models, these can sound wonderful up close but the sound is dead, no overtones, no ping, and your sound won't be projected while playing in a lot of halls.

Paul,
Good question as usual, you always ask great questions a positive position for readers on this website - The distance is 1.2825" to be exact, or 1 9/32" or32.38mm's, but you can rounded off a shade.


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




Post Edited (2019-07-20 11:57)

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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-07-20 00:00

So the Selmer HS * features a 32.38 mm long facing as opposed to what I assume is closer to an 18 mm facing for the Vandoren M13?


Is that part of what makes it work better?





................Paul Aviles



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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2019-07-20 12:03

Sorry Paul, I misunderstood your question. I was referring to the tip opening to the table where the reed rests.

The curve on the Selmer facing starts at 17mm's.

B


Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist 2015




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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-07-20 13:00

Thanks Bob






...................Paul Aviles



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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: EbClarinet 
Date:   2019-07-27 15:58

On the HS*, I was able to get pretty good tone quality for a high schooler. My trombonist band director told me I had to get the HS* for high school playing and it really worked. When I got to college, the clarinet professor told me it made me play 2 sharp. I was able to get that pedagogical collegiate tone quality out of it 1 time before switching over to the Pyne mouthpiece. I'm used to the Pyne now but I'm still after that dark classical clarinet tone quality that's either collegiate or professional.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/

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 Re: Selmer HS* and Vandoren M13
Author: TomS 
Date:   2019-07-30 06:27

I agree with Bob on the tuning of the M13 ... to make matters worse, I use a 3.25-3.50 Legere European Signature on the three that I use (and the several that I don't use gather dust). I also thinned the tip rails slightly on these three. And, I had to go thru several 65mm barrels to find one that improved the flatness at high C and above. Less reverse taper, I think.

I'd like an M13 that is pitched for 442.

But, this combo produces a nice, easy, clarity. Clear, but with the sound wearing a light wool sweater.

I spend my mad money on audio gear and Ham Radio stuff ... gotta delegate some dough to Brad Behn to see if he can dial in things a bit for me ...

Tom

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