 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ReedWoman
Date: 2001-06-25 20:27
I bought an Albert-system Buffet clarinet on eBay, and I'm now in the process of cleaning it up, trying to decide whether to play it or display it. I have a couple of questions about the way it's been repaired. First, some of the pads (exploded felt) seem to be held in place by something like red sealing wax...was that common, or did some yahoo do this? Also, the tenons are wrapped with thread about half of the width, and seem to have really old cork on the other half. Again, slob-job or normal procedure? I think I have to put cork on the whole thing.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-25 20:52
I have seen that "red-stuff" and I think it was a form of shellac, which was heated and then flowed across the base plte of the pad. I don't think it was wax.
Bob A
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-25 20:53
I have seen that "red-stuff" and I think it was a form of shellac, which was heated and then flowed across the base plate of the pad. I don't think it was wax.
Bob A
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-26 04:14
Hi, ReedWoman -
I'd question two things about the instrument before considering whether it's worth restoring. It's definitely worth displaying :] First determine if it's high pitch or low pitch (if you intend to play in instrumental groups). Second would be to look it over very carefully for soundness of the body and mechanism. Then, decide how much work it will take to make it playable and what you're willing to put into restoring it, either yourself or paying someone to fix it.
Tenon thread was fairly common not so long ago. Actually, over the history of single reed woodwinds I think cork is a rather recent innovation. Nothing wrong with thread but cork seems to be the acceptable thing to use now. I think it looks nicer, 'cleaner', and possibly wears better than thread. I have a five piece metal horn (Albert) that had thread on the joints when I got it and has thread now that I've restored it - no particular reason... just 'because'. Works fine. The choice is yours 
Red shellac? Could be. Shellac comes in a rainbow of colors. Check with your local furniture restorer. Personally, I've been using French (white) cement (shellac and whiting) for pads for a long time but recently I've been persuaded change to amber or clear. I'm finding it's slower setting up properties are better. I wouldn't begin to guess what's in your pad cups but there's a chance a yahoo put it there : I dunno. Clean it out and start fresh is my policy. Then, you know what you have.
I restore and play old horns, mostly Alberts. Most Alberts you find in the U.S. are pretty old now so you find a lot of junk not worth much more than the wood and the nickle-silver by weight. A Buffet though, in almost any condition, if it's low (standard) pitch, is worth restoring (and money) any day :]
Are you planning to fix it yourself? Do you intend to play it?
- ron b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-26 12:51
I believe the thread was used because it was considered relatively easy to adjust its thickness for timber expansion/contraction in different climates. I find it tends to get very messy when adjusted a few times. I've never come across a combination before, and I cannot really see the point.
Cork is far easier to do.
I think the red is almost certainly sealing wax.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-26 16:47
Hi, Gordon -
This is just a guess. The cork on ReedWoman's clarinet tenons became loose and the previous owner wrapped some thread around them. It was a quick fix that worked okay so, as is often the case, it remained that way :]
I agree with you, too, cork is much quicker and neater to apply. I used thread on one of my horns just to try it. I wouldn't do it again unless I run out of cork :
I'll be interested to learn whether ReedWoman's instrument is HP or LP.
- ron b -
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2001-06-26 17:55
You're probably going to think I'm stupid for asking such a question but: What frequency is a HP (high pitch) instrument tuned to? Is this for the European tuning methods?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-26 20:06
No question or person is stupid around here, Joseph - your question is a good one. High Pitch varies somewhat between different makers but is generally around A-456.
LP (low pitch) instruments are tuned to A-440, the standard today. Earllier instruments, around 1910-20 and earlier, were often higher pitched, as much as a quarter tone higher. When low pitched and high pitched instruments were both being made, when A-440 was *becoming* the (international) standard, they were often stamped to denote the difference, LP or HP, because both were in use at the same time. After the A-440 standard was well established instrument makers quit marking their products. Many Albert system horns are so marked, HP or LP and a few Boehm system horns made durning the transition period are so marked. But, not all instruments made during that time are marked; you have to play it to find out. To complicate matters, general measurements don't help much. Bore/length ratios vary, sometimes quite a bit. HP instruments are not compatible with present day woodwinds. You'd need to find other HP wind instruments to play with or string groups capable of tuning up to the higher pitched instrument(s).
- ron b -
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Author: ReedWoman
Date: 2001-06-27 02:10
Thanks for all the great info.
I bought this thing as a repad project, not expecting to be able to play it, but hope springs eternal... Yes I'd like to fix it up myself, but I think my favorite repair shop will wind up reseating the pads (at least!) before I'll be able to tell if it's worth playing. From reading the BB, it seems that there would be many of you out there who would be able to look at it and tell me if it's really worth getting into shape.
It has a crack the length of the barrel, and one in the upper joint that looks to my inexperienced eye like it goes thru the tone hole. I would think this would affect its playability.
It has no indicator of HP or LP...not even a serial number ???????
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Author: Dennis
Date: 2001-06-27 02:54
So, if this old Conn Albert System clarinet with a serial # B26877H, made in factory 34, is playable except for the replacement of a few pads, is it worth keeping? For the nostalgia of it all.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-27 05:26
Dennis -
Beg pardon? Thought we were discussing a *Buffet* Albert system :]
Conn serial # B26877H is quite possibly a high pitch horn. B=Bb, H=high pitch. It's worth keeping.
ReedWoman -
If your instrument has no markings you can try to get it to sound an open G. Compare that to concert F on a tuner, piano or another modern instrument to find out if it matches. If the cracked barrel or joint leak is too bad try covering it with tape and hope that may be air tight enough for the initial 'test'. If the register key, A and Ab key won't seal you might cover the holes with tape too. Cracks can be fixed, even ones that go into tone holes, but it's not a routine job for the 'average' do-it-yourselfer.
Once you determine its pitch you can decide how far you want to go with it, whether to play it or display it. If it's a standard pitch I'd lobby for you to fix it and play it. You might want to ask a repair tech to just do the cracks for you and do the rest yourself, since you bought it with that in mind. There are some expert techs who visit here pretty regularly and some are Sneezy sponsors. Any one of them could give you an opinion and maybe an estimate to repair the cracks.
- ron b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-27 18:18
Is it playable at all?
iIf so, you may determine its pitch:
Get in front of a tuner, in a not-cold room with the instrument bore warmed by playing.
1. Play a few notes just above the break to get an idea of the tuner's average response in this area. Call this 'pitch 1'.
2. Do likewise with a few notes just below the break, say F,G,A. Call this pitch '2'.
3. If pitch 2 is sharper than pitch 1, pull the barrel out. If it is flatter push it in.
Repeat 1,2,3 until pitch 1 = pitch 2 (even though this may be above or below A440 on the tuner)
Now the pitch that the tuner is registering is the pich of the instrument.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-27 18:18
Is it playable at all?
iIf so, you may determine its pitch:
Get in front of a tuner, in a not-cold room with the instrument bore warmed by playing.
1. Play a few notes just above the break to get an idea of the tuner's average response in this area. Call this 'pitch 1'.
2. Do likewise with a few notes just below the break, say F,G,A. Call this pitch '2'.
3. If pitch 2 is sharper than pitch 1, pull the barrel out. If it is flatter push it in.
Repeat 1,2,3 until pitch 1 = pitch 2 (even though this may be above or below A440 on the tuner)
Now the pitch that the tuner is registering is the pich of the instrument.
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