 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-23 19:40
On a thread a couple of days ago someone denounced all eBay sellers. Other Sneezies picked up on this and took up for some of us who are honest sellers. I just wanted to add a couple of people who contribute regularly to Sneezy from whom I have personally purchased mouthpieces, clarinets, or sold stuff to who were honest sellers/buyers. Among them is a great guy, Anji, from whom I have purchased great mouthpieces. His stuff is exactly as he describes and he is easy to work with. He also has a great collection of mouthpieces and you can look some of them up on the Sneezy classifieds.
Also, Bill and Bob Gardner, two of my frequent repeat buyers who bid regularly and pay promptly and are great to exchange emails. Others have purchased once from me but mentioned Sneezy in their emails.
Sneezies are the best customers and I usually trust them to take care of something if I send it out for them to try. Most of us are really interested in the instrument and not in taking advantage of people. We want to buy and sell the best we can afford and find the best equipment for ourselves in the process.
If you want to recommend a good eBay seller or buyer, do it here. But, don't promote yourself or your own auctions. This is just to build confidence in eBay sellers who actually sell things exactly like they advertise.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-23 19:42
Oh, Bill is not Bill Gardner. It just looked that way. I won't add his last name unless he wants to do so. Sounded like the Gardner twins. 
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-23 20:13
Brenda is referring to me, Bill "Feadog" D'Ambrogio. I've had over 80 eBay buying and selling transactions, ranging from $10 to several in the $1,000 to $3,000 range, both US and international. So, far no problems, except my first purchase where the flute was mistakenly sent to someone other than me, and another where I was sent someone else's $900 money order for a $700 flute headjoint. These two transactions resulted in some delay, but worked out fine. You do have to check the seller's feedback, and ask questions, etc.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-24 02:46
You are so right, Brenda; I've met many very nice folks through eBay. Most, like you, are honest. They may not know much about what they're selling but they're not out to cheat anyone. Most sellers have no use for the item and just want to realize more money than they have invested in it. Free enterprise - or something like that. Seems fair to me :]
I guess that's easy to say, since I've never been stung. I can understand a bad deal souring a person's attitude toward the whole bunch though. It's unfortunate, but understandable. But, on the other side, to brand the whole bunch by the behavior of a [very] few isn't really fair. I must've missed the post you're referring to 'cause I don't remember reading a negative about eBay here recently. I'll look again.
- ron b -
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-06-24 05:29
So far with about 30 eBay purchases, I've only been stung once with a clarinet case that looked good and described to be good, but was actualy gutted inside. The seller was a repair tech back east so he KNEW it was junk. However all the rest were smooth and honest and good deals.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-24 07:03
Bad deals _DO_ leave a bad taste. SURE DO! But,is it possible to avoid this? Is a retail transaction at a counter any different when the store says "So sue me!"
I have found many eBayer's go out of their way to resolve issues & problems, as eBay Feedback records are what everybody goes by in judging a worthy seller.
With a retailer I have to contact the local BBB. How many of us do that everytime we go into a new retail store? (I sure don't ....)
eBay is still a fairly new medium. Much of what you hear/read is NOT true ...
Best,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-24 14:21
I almost gave up selling stuff on eBay a couple of weeks ago after agreeing to sell my Leblanc Symphonie VII to the high bidder (although it didn't meet the reserve) after the auction closed. In a moment of sheer insanity I agreed to sell it for $2,500.00 plus shipping. I paid $4,000.00 for it about 8 mos. ago but was unhappy with the fact that it was hard to get any volume from it. I tried for a couple of months to sell it and decided I just had something that was going to be very hard to sell and perhaps I should sell it and get it over with and buy myself something I could use. Then, I came to my senses after agreeing to sell it to him and asked him if he would please release me from the obligation of selling it to him because I had decided I wanted to keep it.
He immediately sent me a threatening email that was quite nasty and acused me of dishonesty and said he was going to "take action" against me if I didn't send him the clarinet "at once." Well, I won't go into all the other threats and remarks and acusations he made, but I had to hire an attorney to help me with the guy. I was able to maintain my polite emails to him although his were just flat "nuts." Come to find out the guy is an attorney in Maryland.
End of the story: I'm still grieving over the loss of my Symphonie VII. I should have never put it up for sale in the first place and I'll never be able to recover the cost of the loss emotionally. It wasn't an official ebay sale, so feedback isn't a recourse--but I'll certainly never accept any of his bids again. I cringe at the thought that he has the Symphonie VII.
Anyway, I'm licking my wounds and trying to get back on my feet from it. He has been one of the exceptions to the rule of "nice people on eBay."
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-24 14:45
Brenda: I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience. I saw one seller that said that he would reject bids from lawyers, due to a bad experience.
I had similar experience selling a flute, but it worked out okay. I used Auction Watch to automatically launch the auction late in the evening while I would be sleeping. The next day I read an email, from a friend I made via eBay, asking why I was selling the flute so cheaply. I checked and the starting bid was $500, but there was an Auction Watch bug which omitted the $1,700 reserve. If there were no other bids, the flute would sell for $500. I decided to end the auction to correct the mistake. Next, I got the standard eBay email to me and the buyer indicating that the flute had been sold for $500. I found, in bold letters (I never read the bold print) in the eBay instructions that I was supposed to cancel bids before ending the auction. The buyer was in Japan, and Japanese, so I was not optimistic about an email resolution. I sent him an email, explaining the mistake, and within two hours, he responded that he understood, no problem. I was lucky it went in my favor. I was hit with the eBay selling fee, but I explained the problem to eBay in an email, and they refunded the fee.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-24 15:04
Brenda: After thinking about your Symphonie VII selling experience, I'm surprised that you were legally obligated to sell it. I understand that eBay sales, where the reserve is met or there is no reserve, carry an obligation to sell. Of course, he has no legal fees to pay since he is representing himself, and you'd have to pay your lawyer more money to get him off your case. Is he a clarinetist?
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-24 16:26
Offer & acceptance are the ingredients to a lawful contract. Technically, the lawyer from Maryland may have been correct. (We don't have the exact fact situation & needn't go into it further)
However, I doubt that the lawyer/buyer had the proof that would have supported him in a court of competent jurisdiction. In his defense (& to the extent that is possible in the cirsumstances), he may have thought that Brenda had found a "higher-price willing" buyer. That _is_ a failing of electronic communication, in all respects. However, there is nothing to preclude someone from doubting a person's sincerity in face-to-face communication, either.
In Brenda's defense, she made a mistake in accepting the offer & asked the buyer to agree to rescission of their (oral) contract. She tried to apply to the buyer's sense of right & wrong, appealing to his HUMAN side for understanding. We all must remember that ... what goes around, comes around (& vice versa)!
Best,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-24 20:43
Actually, I've had pretty good experience with lawyers. One of my favorite customers is a guy named Irwin who may be reading this. If so, pipe in buddy. He's a great person and paid with cashier's check in full for a wonderful Opus clarinet just a few months ago. So, all lawyers, like all eBay sellers, are not heartless and cruel.
This guy who bought the Symphonie VII falls into a grey area, according to my attorney with whom I spent many hours over this. I dread the bill. He said we had email correspondance which could constitute a written agreement even though there is no actual signature between the two parties. My attorney says my computer serves as my signature because my name is on the top of the page of the email and the correspondance did come from my computer. And he wasn't sure how it would hold up in court, so I opted to send the Symphonie. So, email purchasers and sellers be careful what you agree to out there.
My attorney (a top corporate attorney employed by my husband's company) is one of the best in his field and he said, "If you want to be rid of the guy, sell him the instrument. If not, he may take it as a personal challenge to get you as hard as he can." Worst case scenario--I lost the Symphonie VII forever! Although, I did write him a "full refund if you don't like it" letter-----please!!!!
By the way, I had no higher offer. I'm sure he probably thought that. I don't want to go into the details of the emails from him. I would hate to have him for my attorney because he was very sloppy in his acusations.
I do the eBay thing for a hobby and because I like meeting fellow clarinetists and helping young players get a good start without being taken to the cleaners. Every once in a while I get to purchase great stuff (like the Kaspar mouthpiece I just sold) and meet great people. Not to mention great lessons from life.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-24 21:24
Several members of my family are lawyers, & I studied business law extensively. Most lawyers don't go around threatening others in their spare time. A gray area of the law is called that, as it is neither black nor white. Often said to be an area of 50--50 as to right or wrong. Life's lessons can be expensive. They say that we should learn from them or we are destined to relive them. mw
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-06-24 21:28
It was to my understanding that if the reserve is not met, then your not obligated to make an transaction with anyone!! Maybe some people out ther are just big JERKS!
Sara
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-24 21:49
I wasn't obligated to sell to him. I agreed to sell to him and then changed my mind WAY before he sent any money or final arrangements were made.
And, mw, he did make quite a few threats--all in his spare time. I could sue him for slander and a lot of other things if I wanted, but I don't. I'm sure you are very knowledgeable, but not about this case--and I have protected him by not making any of it public. My attorney was shocked after investigating this guy and finding he was a legitimate member of the bar in Maryland.
The point wasn't about my experience with the Symphonie, I just brought it up to mention another side of the deal. Of over 400 something transactions on eBay last year I've only had 2 that were unpleasant.
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Author: Azzacca
Date: 2001-06-25 00:04
I am very sorry to hear about your bad experience on ebay. But there are lots of nuts out there. Here's mine
I was a longtime buyer on ebay, and finally broke down to sell some stuff (mostly some Magic the Gathering cards for my honey). And one of the items sold for a modest $50. After a month for payment, I went thru ebay and send a "non-paying bidder warning" against her. She told me that she had been on vacation and her parents were supposed to have been watching this stuff for her... and would send payment imediately. After another two weeks, I send another email stating that I would not leave negative feedback if I received a money order within 5 days.
After sending out the card, having received the money order, the mother reamed me for having required either a money order or paypal. She apparently didn't like paying $2 for a money order and didn't trust paypal. I politely explained that I am not a business and had waited for over a month for payment and that I had every reason to expect a quick turnaround payment. Out of over 50 selling transactions, she was the only one that ticked me off like that. I wasn't as upset about a bounced check for $5 (after I sent the item - having thought that the check cleared in a weeks time), as I was about that woman!
.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-25 13:50
You never know with whom you're dealing online. That's why eBay gets such a bad rap sometimes. It pays to check them out. That's also why I mentioned this in the beginning of the thread. Let's keep a list of the clarinet people who are honest sellers on eBay and buy from them.
Also, as sellers we sometimes get bad buyers--rarely, but sometimes.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-25 15:11
Brenda said, (in part) " Let's keep a list of the clarinet people who are honest sellers on eBay and buy from them." If we are to do this I would suggest it be privately. Your "friend" would like nothing better than to have a "list" from which he has been excluded IN WRITING and PUBLISHED on Sneezy.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-25 16:11
Brenda said:
"I agreed to sell to him and then changed my mind WAY before he sent any money or final arrangements were made."
-----------------------------
A legally binding Contract has 2 ingredients. Offer & Acceptance. No cash or property need change hands at the time the offer is made & accepted.
At the point in time that a legally binding contract has been made, the Seller is legally obligated to sell; the buyer is legally obligated to pay.
Brenda, that's why your lawyer suggested that you fulfill the selling end of the contract ..... because he/she believed, more likely than not, that you were obligated to fulfill the terms of the Contract.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-25 16:12
I think Bob is right. If you list (publish) anything here, even the least bit negative, about someone's *business* dealings, then... well, who knows where it'll end? Looks like it could go on forever, a free for all, every offended someone threatening and sueing every offending anyone, including stray arrows at Mark C., for slander or whatever they thought made 'em mad : ( I hope Mark isn't be liable for feuds that break out in his back yard while he's taking a break
Oh, man.... :|
- ron b -
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-25 17:03
Yes, you're right about the selling of the clarinet. He told me the eBay and online stuff along with email "contracts" was still considered a gray area because there hasn't been enough documentation of actual cases yet. But, I knew I had to fulfill my word and send the clarinet. The part you don't know is that the buyer told me with his first email that it wasn't very important to him because he already had several clarinets. So, that's why I thought he wouldn't mind my asking him to let me back out of the sale. But, apparently it was very important to him. I always keep my word even if it costs me $1,500.00 plus attorney's fees to do it. I just really wanted to keep the clarinet--especially since he said he wasn't overly interested in it.
And, Bob is right about the list. Forget it. You all know who's honest and who isn't.
But, Ron, I don't remember Mark being mentioned in this thread--there were certainly no "stray arrows at Mark C." for slander in any of the messages I wrote or read.
But, I'm moving on to other things. Gotta ship out my Festival today to be Brannenized. It is healing my heart from the loss of the Symphonie VII.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2001-06-25 17:12
I bought my '50s R-13 on Ebay a little over two years ago. I don't remember the seller's name, he was from a music store in Pennsylvania. I paid an excellent price and got exactly what was described. It came within a week and a half. It was a very positive experience. The clarinet was recently valued at $800 more than I paid for it, too!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-25 19:45
Well, thanks Ron. I really appreciate your words of encouragement and kindness. I'll have to admit, I did cry a bucket of tears and more for days and days over the deal. It was all I could do to package up the clarinet (very carefully) and ship it off to him knowing such a wonderful instrument was going to such a disagreeable human being. But, as they say, what goes around comes around. I'm sure he'll run into someone who will turn the tables on him someday soon. It won't be me. Perhaps he's used to dealing with dishonest people and he just assumes everyone is dishonest.
Oh well, on to shipping out my Festival to the Brannens. They're great people to work with---as are most clarinet people.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-25 20:34
Brenda, I might have been inclined to coat the inside of the bore with garlic oil--But then, maybe he's Italian or Spanish and loves it. 8-}
Bob A
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-26 00:03
Bob, the girl at Fed Ex suggested putting frowning faces all over the box. I had to overnight it to him at my own expense---the story just gets more and more expensive as it unfolds. I told her I would not stoop to his level. I gave him first class service and even put in a brand new Moennig tuning barrel and Rovner ligature with a "thank you" card. I wanted to throw up--but not as much as I wanted to be rid of him forever.
But, your suggestion makes me smile and I really, really need to smile about this.
However, from his name (which shall not pass from my lips or finger tips) isn't Italian. Sorry.
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Author: Sue B
Date: 2001-06-26 00:43
You are TOO good but you definitely showed who the bigger person was in this transaction.
good luck in your future transactions!!
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Author: Royce
Date: 2001-06-26 03:06
There's been a lot of mention about legal obligations here, but I don't recall seeing a word about any *moral* obligation. This lawyer is being cast as an evil, nasty, horrible person because he insisted that a seller honor her promise. Perhaps I'm hopelessly old-fashioned, I expect people to keep their word, without my having to threaten them with legal action...sigh...
Royce
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-26 04:36
Royce -
Brenda was intimidated, badgered, threatened and accused of dishonesty by an 'upstanding' lawyer. She fulfilled her moral obligation with dignity and honor in the face of that. 'Legally', I think, Brenda could have gotten out of it. 'Morally', she kept her end of this convoluted bargain. Had she been dealing with a rational person with a real heart we wouldn't be reading about her dreadful experience.
I may be old fashioned too; I expect people to be reasonable...sigh...
Ron
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-26 13:12
Thanks Ron.
Royce, for your information, I did honor my word to the letter and beyond. I asked out of the deal after agreeing to sell the clarinet to him because he sent me an email saying he didn't care whether or not he purchased the clarinet, it was "just a luxury" to him. So, I sent an email back and asked if I could back out because the instrument was more important than that to me. That's when a sudden onslaught of intimidation, acusation, etc. began. Without giving me a chance to respond to his desire for the instrument (which I thought was much less than it must have been) he fired back an email filled with legalese and threats and character assassination. I called my attorney right away because his tone and accusations were so ungrounded and irrational. But, I don't want to go into all that again.
The point of all this is to say most people on eBay that I've dealt with (with the rare exception of the above case) were fantastic people who honored their word to me. In most cases where I've gotten goods that weren't what I expected them to be and was disappointed, I've absorbed the loss and moved on.
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Author: Royce
Date: 2001-06-26 16:50
Brenda, please accept my apology.
I never meant to imply that you had not honored your original agreement. I somehow got the impression that you only completed the deal after your lawyer told you that you very well might be legally obligated to sell. Upon carefully re-reading your posts, I can see that I was mistaken. Again, my apologies.
Royce
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-26 17:15
No problem. I was trying not to expose too much detail about the deal and probably didn't make it very clear.
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Author: dew
Date: 2001-07-01 19:43
Our family has bought many instruments from ebay sellers, mostly saxes. imho clarinet purchases have been some of the most difficult transactions. It is not easy to determine the mechanical condition fo a clarinet by looking at a photograph of a horn in its case.
One R13 came to us with a plastic barrel, an E11 deemed playable (by a music teacher) needed a complete overhaul, and an E11 had its serial number "surgically" removed (this from a "retired" band director.) Only the R13 mixup was resolved, and amicably-we bought another barrel and the price was adjusted by the unaware seller. The others were our tough luck, caveat emptor.
4 ebay clarinet purchases, 3 of the 4 not satisfactory. No more.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-01 22:07
Its understandable the way you feel, no question. mw
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