 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2019-01-19 06:05
What note is played in the key of B major with an F double sharp?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: TrueTone
Date: 2019-01-19 07:23
F double sharp is fingered the same as G, regardless of key, if I understand what you're asking correctly.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2019-01-19 07:52
A double sharp raises the following note by two semitones. A double flat lowers the following note by two semitones.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-19 08:44
Well actually it sounds like in the moment to which you speak you are most likely in "g#" minor. The correct spelling for the leading tone (seventh scale degree) would be.........F double sharp.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-01-19 11:33
G natural.
Have you got an image of the extract to put it into context?
Imagine having to play something written in the key of B# Major - B# Cx Dx E# Fx Gx Ax B#
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2019-01-20 03:13
I guess that the use of double sharps and double flats is the "harmonically correct" way to define them in specific keys, and to academic musicians can give meaning to the passage although certainly in my youger days I always wished that the instrumental parts used a more user friendly representation.
I also suspect that in the natural scales an F## is not exactly the same pitch as a G. However in the end it is the ear,aided by the surrounding harmonies, that guides the played pitch
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-01-20 05:25
Caroline Smale wrote:
> I also suspect that in the natural scales an F## is not exactly
> the same pitch as a G. However in the end it is the ear,aided
> by the surrounding harmonies, that guides the played pitch
>
I know string players and singers who would insist that there is a difference between F## and G - especially if it's the leading tone of G# minor. In fact, so would many wind players. Agreed, our ears are, indeed, the best guide to pitch.
To make a fine point of it, though, I don't think accurate note spellings are only academically meaningful when reading a melodically difficult but tonal piece. On first sight (or even subsequent readings as my aging memory increasingly balks) I might be more inclined in G# minor to expect an F# or F-natural to follow a G, while an F## almost guarantees I'm heading toward a G#. Expectation is one key ingredient of accurate sight-reading.
Karl
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2019-01-20 06:05
It is technically correct because - if you want to raise the 5th note of a scale you add a sharp, which is not harmonically the same as a lowered 6th, an Ab. In the C scale, a raised 5th is G# and in the B scale, the raised 5th is F##.
And to add, if you really know your scales, it is annoying to see a G natural in this spot since the scales have no repeated letters in the first seven notes of the scale.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2019-01-20 09:00
Chris P wrote:
>
> Imagine having to play something written in the key of B# Major
> - B# Cx Dx E# Fx Gx Ax B#
>
This is what is known as a theoretical key signature. You won't find it on the Circle of Fifths and you'll never see double-sharps in an actual key signature, unless you run across a composer with a death wish.
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Author: genekeyes ★2017
Date: 2019-01-22 02:30
an F# double sharp is still a G. The double accidental overrides the existing one. There is no such thing as an F# double sharp....it is an F double sharp.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2019-01-22 02:41
The fine point discussion has my illogical logic nagging me that there needs to be a sharp-flat symbol, or in some keys a flat-sharp symbol.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-01-22 02:49
Philip Caron wrote:
> The fine point discussion has my illogical logic nagging me
> that there needs to be a sharp-flat symbol, or in some keys a
> flat-sharp symbol.
Well, I guess if you're a composer who wants to use one of those notes, you'd have to be the one to invent the sign for it.
Karl
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2019-01-22 04:53
A year or two ago, for a production of Big Fish that I was playing, they used TRW's Transposition Express service to change the key of a couple songs to better suit the vocalist. Only thing I remember about it was that my part ended up with a C triple flat, LOL.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-01-22 14:50
A music degree student offered to rewrite a part out for me that was transposed into C# Major and I asked them if they could rewrite it in five flats.
They wrote it all out but only changed the key signature to five flats, leaving the notes in the same place. It sometimes makes you wonder what a degree in music is really worth.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-22 16:22
Oh God Chris, don't get me started.
.......and technology leaves us flailing about too.
In the military band service, a highly prized skill (???) was to take an MP3, throw it into a basic note generating program and use that "arrangement" for an ad hoc ensemble. Problem is, the program often chose a random key and added "accidentals" to make up the difference. It took longer to correct the misdiagnosed arrangement than if someone just wrote it out from scratch.
And don't think for one second that there aren't a lot of instances of that going on out there in the civilian world that we don't know about. YIKES !!!!!!
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2019-01-22 21:43
Chris said:
"A music degree student offered to rewrite a part out for me that was transposed into C# Major and I asked them if they could rewrite it in five flats.
They wrote it all out but only changed the key signature to five flats, leaving the notes in the same place. It sometimes makes you wonder what a degree in music is really worth.
Chris."
Wow. I hope you refused to pay? Even with Finale you can tell it to keep the notes at the same pitches while changing the key signature. But then you have to still go through the piece and fix things that came out with odd spellings. If he wrote it out by hand, one wonders why he did not simply paste five flats over the key signature and xerox the part! Wherever that person was going to music school should have had a letter written to the head of the department showing what they were not teaching.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2019-01-25 20:28
"transpose onto the A clarinet"
What would a f double sharp be for an A clarinet?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-01-25 21:28
It would be a G#, but the point is that you'd be playing in C major or, more likely at that particular spot, A minor so that the written G# would probably be the raised 7th of a harmonic or melodic A minor instead of the raised 7th of written G# minor in the Bb clarinet part.
Karl
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2019-01-26 21:23
"What would a f double sharp be for an A clarinet?"
Concert E natural, if printed as an F double sharp. Same transposition as everything else.....
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2019-01-26 22:39
Anyone encountered a triple sharp?
https://dictionary.onmusic.org/terms/3687-triple_sharp
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2019-01-26 23:07
Ha, Alkan used a triple sharp in his Op. 39. That's one of the most amazing group of solo piano pieces ever written, well worth listening to. What's the theoretical justification for that accidental? - Alkan would have known it. In the mid-1800's he probably should have been named head of the piano department at the Paris Conservatoire, but was passed over for dubious reasons.
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