 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Greg_Greece
Date: 2018-11-11 12:29
Hello everyone,
i would like to mention an issue that i'm trying to deal with the past few months. I have a beautiful Buffet Albert system clarinet in A which was professionaly overhauled by the top repairman in my country!
Most of the times, after a little playing, water drips out from the thumb hole. What should do to overcome this problem?
Also, i have noticed that sometimes the higher notes become fuzzy, they are not clear and they're tending to squeak and i can't play things that i would like to easily. Is that possible to happen due to the issue that i mentioned above?
I am really looking forward to your replies!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-11 17:14
If you refer to most clarion and altissimo notes where you cover the thumb tube then, no. Squeaks and fuzziness is usually due to a pad not sealing properly. For that I'd suggest doing negative and positive pressure tests on both joints to track down where the leak is.
As for the moisture, I would guess that because you play more on the horn now that it is fixed, the condensation is more of an issue. Firstly, swabbing frequently will help. Also, if you avoid aligning the mouthpiece with the register/thumb position, that may help too. I avoid moisture in the side keys by aligning the reed more with a "six-thirty" or greater position (as you look down upon the alignment, turn the mouthpiece slightly clockwise so the reed seems to the "left" of the register/thumb).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-11 17:19
If you are leaking water around the tube you are probably leaking air there as well. When I had that problem a few years ago the tube actually fell out while swabbing one day. After super glueing the tube in place the leak there stopped. As condensation builds in the clarinet , tones become muffled. Even a few drops in the mouthpiece or on the reed can totally ruin play ability . You need to swab more often. Use only drop cloths . Push rods can cause lots of damage.A drop cloth that is too tight can also cause damage. I once had one that broke the tube out with a a large triangular piece of wood.
Post Edited (2018-11-11 17:34)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2018-11-11 17:44
Please don't use superglue. The thumb tube is meant to be removable. It is often glued in with shellac. I install and seal it with beeswax. Liquid shellac may be easier if you are doing it yourself. There are a lot of top repairmen (and women!) in the country. This one missed checking the body to see if the tubes are sealed. No one is perfect. I would seal the register tube while you are at it.
Steve Ocone
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-11-11 18:23
Greg_Greece wrote:
> Most of the times, after a little playing, water drips out from
> the thumb hole. What should do to overcome this problem?
> Also, i have noticed that sometimes the higher notes become
> fuzzy... Is that possible
> to happen due to the issue that i mentioned above?
>
The only way they're likely to be related is that, if you have water running down the bore toward the thumb hole, you may be getting some in the register tube as well. Water in the register vent can cause odd gurgling or poor response in almost any clarion note and can prevent long B4 from speaking at all for an instant (until the water is blown through, since there's no other exit for air).
The reason for having the tube in the register vent rather than just a hole is to keep condensation from running into it. But I have often experienced water in the tube - possibly it isn't even running in but forming as warm breath escapes through the colder metal tube when the vent is open for clarion and altissimo notes. For that matter the thumb hole has a metal chimney, so the same thing could be happening there.
The most straightforward way to control water in tone holes is to swab the bore, then blot the hole itself with the swab, absorbent paper (cigarette paper works well, or papers sold for the purpose by a couple of the music accessory manufacturers). Doing this does nothing to keep the problem from happening again, but it solves it in the short term.
Swabbing often to keep water from building in the bore can help prevent the problem.
Karl
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Author: Greg_Greece
Date: 2018-11-11 18:40
Attachment: CIMG0457.jpg (45k)
Thank you all for your quick replies!
I would like to inform you that most (if not all) of the old albert system French clarinets don't have a metal tube a the thumb hole as you can see in the picture that i post here...
Post Edited (2018-11-11 18:50)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-11-11 19:55
It also looks like it has a wrap-around register vent with the hole in the front of the instrument. Some Boehm system clarinets had the same thing through the early 1900s. If that's the case, again, the hole is placed on the front side to prevent water from running into it. That doesn't mean condensation *can't* collect in the vent.
> Also, i have noticed that sometimes the higher notes become fuzzy,
> they are not clear and they're tending to squeak and i can't play
> things that i would like to easily.
Another possible cause of poor response that develops only after playing for awhile is a pad that has a small tear in the covering so water can be absorbed into the felt (assuming you have skin-covered felt pads on the upper section). As it soaks up water, the pad swells and after a time it no longer covers the hole. The higher on the instrument the pad is, the more notes it can affect or even disable. The only thing wrong with that explanation is that the problem wouldn't be limited to the upper registers - it would affect the chalumeau as well.
It may or may not be connected to the problem of water running out of the thumb hole, but I'd still take the register key off and make sure there's no water or other obstruction in the vent hole.
You aren't using Legeres by any chance, are you? My experience is that, apart from their benefits, they do seem to send more water into the bore, requiring more frequent swabbing. I have much more trouble with water-clogged tone holes when I'm using a Legere than when I'm using cane.
Karl
Karl
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-11 20:04
During my first year of play I suffered horrible pain in my swollen thumb from raised thumb hole tubes.I finally resolved that by fabricating a cork button, shaped like a bolt, that covered the tube and filled the hole. Lately my thumb has started to get sore again from an increase of play on newly acquired clarinets. I may now have to fabricate more insert-buttons until I get over it. A cork button would also prevent moisture from dripping. I envy the thought of owning clarinets that do not possess those torturous tubes. I have often been tempted to remove or grind them down to a more tolerable profile.
An Improv player of blown out and or priviously broken clarinets that is always looking for more projects to tamper with.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2018-11-11 20:47
I've found that making sure the bore is well-oiled helps water flow better. It might help with your problem. If the clarinet is very old and hasn't been oiled in many years the wood might be quite dry.
Here in the states is a good source of bore oil: http://doctorsprod.com/cbuy/supplies/wood-care
Perhaps something similar is available locally.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2018-11-11 22:18
Hi Greg!
For the past ten years or so, I've played on pre/early 20th century Alberts. Every one of the clarinets I play has the problem with occasional water in the thumb, and rare moisture in the register vent.
Over the years, I've tried various things, but I've found that I always resort back to the easiest/fastest/most-sure-fired solution: I simply cup my hand around the affected tone hole/vent (to prevent moisture from flying across the room) and blow across the hole (perpendicular to the instrument) with a quick blast of air. I realize this is a non-technical solution, but it is the one I that always end up using. I tried using a swab to put a small amount of oil above (and down the sides of) the two effected vents, but the positive results were short-lived.
In my experience, when the problem shows itself, I do the above process one time, and it usually cures the problem for the entire rest of the practice/performance. Rarely, I must do the process twice. For me, the problem almost always shows itself (if it is going to) in the first few minutes of playing, or if the instrument has been played, set on a stand, then picked back up to play a short time later.
And yes - occasionally, on longer performances, sometimes the thumb hole will steadily drain small amounts of water onto your thumb (but without affecting tone/sound quality). I've always just chalked this up to being "the way things are" and I quit worrying about it.
Fuzzy
Post Edited (2018-11-11 22:18)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-11 22:56
The lack of a thumb tube seems more like something that had developed rather than an original design feature. I have a vulcanized rubber Conn from the '30s (?) that has a very thin walled thumb tube. The point of the insert is specifically to divert condensation (modern Oehler systems also have a flush tube for this purpose). The "top" of the tube sticks up slightly into the bore.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Greg_Greece
Date: 2018-11-12 12:12
Karl,
no i am not using Legeres. I am about to try them but the softest is #1,75 while i am playing with #1. I will try fibracell soon.. Thanks for the info.
Bennett, the clarinet was cleaned and oiled my the tech about 2 weeks ago.
Fuzzy, i agree that blowing to the holes is always the best and quickest solution.
About the fuzziness on the high G,A,B,C at the clarion register it doesn't happen all the time. That's why i don't think that is a pad or something. Also, the clarinet was professionally checked recently. I have noticed that the thumb hole on my ''A'' clarinet is larger than the one at my ''Bb'' that i usually play. (The Bb has the thumb tube that we were talking about). Maybe it's leaking air sometimes from the thumb hole and that's why some notes become fuzzy etc...
What are your thoughts?
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2018-11-12 14:46
In my experience water coming out of the thumb hole is pretty much normal for clarinets without a tube in there.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-11-12 20:14
Greg:
I throw a little bore oil on my swab too to help slick up the inside of my horn. I do it more to control condensation and help water run to the bell vs protecting my horn that's already in great condition. (I know this can be a controversial subject with clarinetist).
It won't hurt your horn and may help.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-11-12 20:56
I've had some success with using a silicone product intended to stop car doors from squeaking. It comes as an aerosol, but I apply it with a long QTip to the area around and upstream of the thumb hole. I also apply it to the actual tone hole as well. It won't prevent condensation from occurring, but it does aid in directing it away from where you don't want it.
Tony F.
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Author: Greg_Greece
Date: 2018-11-13 02:27
Thanks ClarinetRobt and Tony F dor the info..
Yes fuzzy, i am speaking exaclty for these notes. Tommorrow i am planning to take it again to my repairman to examine it better...
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Author: Greg_Greece
Date: 2018-11-14 00:14
Today i got the clarinet we were talking about to the repairman,
If i want to avoid the dripping water to the thumb hole he told that we can put a tube at the hole (i already knew that)..
The clarinet doesn't have any leaks, he tested it. The problem is mine. I play more often my Bb clarinet and when i switch it to the A sometimes i experience problems especially because they have a big difference to the distance between the thumb hole and the register key..Because my thumb has got used to the Bb sometimes it's leaking air from there when i m playing with the A.
So, i maybe have to adjust the register keys to be as similar they can be...!!!
Post Edited (2018-11-14 00:15)
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[G5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/g5.gif)
![[A5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/a5.gif)
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![[C6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c6.gif)
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