 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anonymoose
Date: 2018-11-05 20:57
I have a technical issue that I would like to change and I am posting here to get some advice or some methods of remedy this problem.
I anchor tongue (meaning I tongue the tip of the reed with the middle of my tongue) and I would like to know if I need to change my way of articulating if I want to be at least decent/proficient at playing the clarinet.
On this forum, I've read that some famous clarinet players anchor tongue, but I've also read that anchor tonguing leads to thuddy and heavy articulation (which I agree with, but comes in handy in some cases). How did those players manage to play light and fast, especially running notes/arpeggiated passages? I can currently tongue around quarter = 130 on a good day, and I've somewhat made it less heavy and clean, but playing the Mendelssohn scherzo is not a walk in the park...
I've been working on this issue with a teacher, and I have been successful in practicing tonguing with the tip though I can only play quarter = 90 on a single note.
So here is my problem. How do I transition to use this tip-to-tip tonguing full time? How would I go about doing that? How long would this transition last?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
P.S. I'm a student
Post Edited (2018-11-05 20:59)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-11-05 21:29
Anonymoose wrote:
> I've been working on this issue with a teacher, ...
> So here is my problem. How do I transition to use this
> tip-to-tip tonguing full time? How would I go about doing that?
> How long would this transition last?
>
Is your teacher a clarinetist? If so, how does he answer these questions?
Whether or not to change or to refine the way you tongue is a choice. There are good players who anchor their tongues, which results in somewhere mid-tongue contacting the reed. You don't say what the tip of your tongue is doing when you "tongue the tip of the reed with the middle of my tongue." Is your tongue anchored to the back of your bottom teeth?
There must be a ton of postings about this - search the history here to see what people have said over the years. I don't think that anchor tonguing needs to be thuddy or heavy, although yours may be (as you suggest above). It can be done lightly in such a way that a listener isn't aware of your technique. So, you have a real choice to make.
If you choose to change, don't use "tip-to-tip" as a literal goal - everyone's tongue lengths and shapes are different. Articulating at the tip of the reed gives a clean release ("attack" - start to the note) but the best place on your tongue to make contact depends on your own comfort. If using the very tip causes contortion and any degree of added tension, find a spot on the top surface of your tongue that doesn't.
Karl
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2018-11-06 01:12
I wholeheartedly agree with Karl’s assessment.
As someone who had to transition from anchor tonguing, however, how do you transition? By doggedly developing the tip-to-tip tonguing and abandoning anchor tonguing for the duration of the transition. You’ll always be able to return to anchor.
Secondarily: “tip to tip” is more greatly able to employ the wind as the primary method of quickly articulating. IMHO, Anchor tonguing relies more on muscular speed. If that statement resonates with you, then you must learn to allow the wind to drive the tongue and seek the relaxed bounce as you articulate.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-06 02:10
For me, tip-to-tip is the last part of focusing the air to achieve a more robust sound. But if you're anchor tonguing is getting great results of sound and you can articulate with precision, I would think that it is fine.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-11-06 04:03
There are a few great players that don't use the tip of their tongue and can articulate really well. Has to do with the mouth cavity. 130 isn't too bad for speed, if these are 16th notes. but you stated quarter notes. Maybe this was a mistake? If so than I would change and work on tonguing exercises, with scales and 3rds, starting very slowly. It may take weeks to master so be patient.
I personally avoid hitting the tip of the reed due to the reeds being thin and the tongue muscle being so strong so I hit touch the reed behind the tip to avoid that harsh tonguing sound. One of the best sounds I've heard regarding articulation was Mitchell Lurie who put his reed tip a shade above the tip of the mouthpiece. So this avoided him hitting the tip of the thin reed so it was a very sweet effect he got. And fast.
I think it's great to try new techniques and find your sound as the tongue is so important to a great sound. The position of the tongue also controls the throat and the mouth cavity. Also your embouchure in some cases.
Often it is wise to find a different teacher whom you really enjoy their playing and sound. In college I often studied with more than 1 instructor, so you don't have to dump your present teacher. Knowledge is powerful.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-11-06 04:09)
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Author: Anonymoose
Date: 2018-11-06 05:56
Hey, thanks for all the great responses.
To kdk,
Yes my teacher is a clarinetist, and he also just told me to keep working at it, slowly transitioning to the point that I can use tip-to-tip comfortably. I'm not being coerced into switching, it is my own decision. I also find that it sounds better tip-to-tip.
Even though the subject of this post is "anchor tonguing", I am not actually anchoring my tongue to the back of the bottom teeth. It maintains a form without pushing against the teeth. I am not sure what tonguing with the middle of the tongue without pushing against the bottom teeth is called.
I'm attempting to change due to various reasons:
One is because I find that the longer the practice session, the angle of the clarinet in relation to my body gets larger (aka closer to a right angle than an acute angle) because the larger the angle is makes the contact point between the reed and my tongue closer. This results in a rather less focused tone (in my opinion, because the clarinet is further away from my body kind of like jazz playing), but the articulation gets easier and lighter.
I can't seem to raise my tongue in a way to still use the middle of the tongue without choking my sound.
Two is because I do find that my tone improves, and my tonguing is cleaner if I use the tip of the tongue. I find that if I develop this, I can use this to create more colors in my sound as well as various different articulations.
To Bob,
Oops my bad, I meant 16th notes at quarter = 130.
I've watched some tonguing videos by Charles Neidich's on the PlayWithAPro website. It seems that he tongues lower on the reed because the tip is thin enough to buckle against the stroke of the tongue and also because of the various partials. I see the logic in that, and also what you posted about raising the reed above the mouthpiece to hit that "sweet spot". I'll experiment.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-11-06 21:14
When I was beginner and dinosaurs roamed the earth, I tongued very hard. I was taught to anchor tongue, not knowing what it was. It fixed all my aliments and got me to a senior in college.
During a lesson my last year in undergraduate, we were casually talking where my tongue touched the reed and for the first time ever I heard the term anchor tonguing. (I was doing sixteenths at 160, so it was never really a problem. No one ever said my tonguing sounded bad, actually quite to the contrary.)
But nonetheless I spent a month of super slow legato tonguing to 'correct' my position. I did fix it, not sure if it made a nickels worth of difference.
So fast forward 30 years, where I play for fun in community groups. I catch myself anchor tonguing all the time. Tonging is quick enough to get through most band music and sounds fine. I'm not remotely worried about it.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2018-11-07 17:48
A couple of years ago I needed to get faster at tonguing on bass clarinet to play the Barnes Paganini variations. So I practiced “T” tounguing (instead of “D”) using a metronome. I gradually got up to 110+ which was all I was asked to do (not 140 a some recording have).
I found that it helped me to think of “T” tonguing as momentarily stopping the air flow vs “D” tonguing as starting the attack.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-11-07 18:29
As a high school student, my articulation was screwed up by a teacher insisting on using the tip of the tongue on the tip of the reed. My mouth and tongue aren't set up that way, and trying to do that sounded horrible. I had to figure it out on my own, until running into teachers who were less dogmatic. Whatever problems I have with my playing, clear articulation isn't one of them. But I always understood "anchor tonguing" as keeping the tip of the tongue fixed behind the teeth while the middle part does the articulation, rather than just touching the reed with something other than the tip of the tongue. Certainly wouldn't recommend that, and it isn't how I do it. It isn't anchor tonguing if nothing is anchored.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2018-11-11 11:13
To me the issue is to have your tongue as relaxed as possible. When i try to articulate with the tip of the tongue i feel, that i have to keep my tongue crooked upwards and it gets very tense and that in fact makes the articulation significantly slower. In my anchor tonguing my tongue doesn't touch the lower teeth, the tip of the tongue just happens to touch lightly my lower lip. My main concern isn't to anchor the tongue anywhere, but trying to get the ideal part of the tongue to touch the reed to an ideal position. And that is a T not a D to almost the tip of the reed. I have no problem having a clear articulation. I could even say, that with T toungeing it's very easy to get different kinds of an attack by variating the shape and size of the area of your tongue touching the reed. The clearness of the attack is more a breathing technique issue.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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