 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2018-10-17 06:45
Help me solve my son's issue with his reeds. For background, he has been playing on Aria strength 3 for over a year, using 4 at a time in one of the plastic cases (Rico or D'addario or something like that) that hold 4 reeds and had no problems. This includes over the summer when it was horribly humid and rainy here. A week and half ago his teacher suggested he try Vandoren 2.5 because she thought they might be between the Aria 3 and 3.5 in strength, as the 3.5 seemed too stuffy still. So I bought a box of blue box Vandorens. We went through them, chose four good ones and put them in his case as usual. After maybe two play sessions at school he told me his best reed had "black spots" on it. I looked and sure enough his best one, open for less than a week was moldy all the way through from back to front. So was his second best one. I tried soaking them in hydrogen peroxide and brushing with toothpaste, but it was a lost cause. It seemed to be all the way through the reed.
We picked two Aria 3.5s from a half box we had to replace them and I told him to play the other two Vandorens at school while we break those in. I looked at the Vandorens today (he brought just the reed case home yesterday) and once again one of them, I assume the one he played in band, was moldy! that is three out of four that have been ruined in a week. What gives?
Because the Aria 3.5 seemed to work for him after all I just ordered him a box, but at that price I don't want them to get ruined. Should I get him a different case? He is only in 6th grade and doesn't really need a humidified case that holds 8 reeds at a time. That one was working great until this week. The only thing I noticed is he has a tendency to shove the reed in tightly. Maybe it is too far and cutting off air to dry it out? He says he wipes extra moisture off the reed before putting it away.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-10-17 06:56
He hasn't been sick over the last week or so, has he?
Karl
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Author: Dr. O
Date: 2018-10-17 07:04
If he has the old black Rico reed case, the mold makes since. Those old Reed Guard IV packs don't have any airflow/ventilation causing mold to grow easily because of excessive contact between the plastic of the reed case to contact with the reed. The new D'Addario Reed Guard looks similar but has ventilation rails which help tremendously with halting mold growth. They're available in different colors as opposed to the old Reed Guard IV which is black. I think they sell for around $8 on amazon.
Other thoughts- throughly wipe off the reed every time after playing to get rid of excess moisture. Mold grows splendidly in environments over 70 degrees, over 70%rH. A wet reed with no moisture wiped off will take longer to dry and encourage mold growth.
Sore the reeds outside of the clarinet case, in a ventilated pencil pouch. When it gets rainy out, ambient humidity rises. Add that to a clarinet case which still traps some moisture and reeds are left in an un-ventilated environment which again, encourages mold growth.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2018-10-17 07:27
It's a newer case with the ridges on the bottom for air flow. No he hasn't been sick since he got these reeds (he had strep before but it didn't affect his reeds then). I did tell him to start storing it in the outer pocket of his case, because I know he has a tendency to not swab his (thankfully plastic) clarinet and thought maybe he was getting excess moisture from that. But the strange thing is it hasn't happened to any of his reeds before this. I guess we will see what happens with the two Arias that are in there now. Is it possible we got a bum box of Vandorens?
I have never had a moldy reed personally, even when I used cases like that years ago and used Vandoren V12s for years before switching to Aria. When a reed gets moldy does it typically just get it on the surface or all the way through the reed? Because these are all the way through.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-10-17 07:44
Have you considered using something like Legere or Forestone reeds? I don't think you'd get mold growth on those.
Tony F.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-10-17 09:30
I would make sure there is no residual mold in the case before putting new reeds in it. Scrub thoroughly with a diluted bleach solution and leave it in direct sunlight (if you have any) for a full day.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-10-17 15:28
I would only say that it is happenstance and not the particular reed involved. I don't know if your son is in "pep band," but there are frequently times when instruments are grounded on the field and any sort of strangeness can be transferred there.
Sanitizing the reed guard too is important, however, I'd suggest just using the plastic sleeve the Vandorens come in for now (they allow for sufficient air around the reed). Then once home, take reeds out and leave them flat side up somewhere out of the way until the next day so they dry thoroughly.
The usual (if there is such a thing) sort of mold I come across is the fuzzy stuff that wipes off easily (but is equally disturbing looking and a bit difficult to get rid of once it gets started). Mold's presence is propagated by microscopic spores. Cleanliness and dryness are your tools to get rid of it. I wipe surfaces of reed holders with Windex.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-10-17 16:47
The bottom line, I think, is that this isn't a Vandoren reed problem. One way or another, it's likely to be more local. I'm not sure you'll find the cause of the problem, given that your son has been using this type of holder without problems until now, unless you want to go to the expense of having the reeds lab-tested for pathogens. I think the next step in trying to stop the growth of whatever-it-is would be to clean and disinfect the holder or, since they aren't expensive, get a new one. By now spores may have gotten into the holder itself and are migrating to whatever reed you put in it.
I suppose it's a remote possibility that some kind of spores contaminated the reeds as they were being packaged at the source (one possible argument, however strained, against the sealed foil wrappers Vandoren has adopted) and that the reeds in that lot are all going to be prone to this. But I think most of us have used Vandoren reeds at one time or another and not experienced this on any kind of consistent basis.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-10-17 21:19
Hi Musikat.
. . . . he has a tendency to not swab his (thankfully plastic) clarinet
. . . . the reeds are showing mold
I would check the clarinet bore if you can, and the inside of the mouthpiece. Maybe there's no connection, but I wouldn't know that there couldn't be.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-10-18 02:05
I have experimented on reed mold and here is what I learned.
They get mold because they are wet.
Fix;
I keep a small (reed size) plastic waterproof pill bottle with the original light tea colored Listerine, and after playing, a five second dip in the Listerine and wiping them off, they won't mold.
Also, if moldy and Listerined and dried, they play just fine. Many of my best reeds are blackened and they play well. (Maybe they play even better!)
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2018-10-18 04:04
Thanks for the suggestions. Some of these are unfortunately a bit unrealistic for an 11 year old who can't remember to swab the instrument, much less dip his reed in Listerine every time, but if I ever have a similar problem (never have, knock on wood) I'll have some good ideas.. .
But Philip, you might be on to something. Somehow I didn't make the connection between potential mold IN the instrument and it transferring to reeds, and that would explain a lot. He of course forgot to bring his instrument home for me to look, but when he does, hopefully tomorrow, it will get a good clean out with an old swab. Any suggestions how best to do that? Should I just moisten it with water and run it through a few times, followed by a dry one? I'm not qualified to take keys off so don't want anything too harsh to clean it. Would a soap and water moistened swab (not sudsy but just enough to clean) be OK for the pads?
Also I am going to go to Music and Arts and buy him a new case (or two!) and just throw out the old one. I did rinse it off with soap and water but there were more moldy reeds in it after and maybe it is best to start fresh. I had a talk with him about the importance of swabbing. He did comment that if he breaths "in" from his instrument it "tastes bad," so maybe that is the source. Gross.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-10-18 07:14
Sounds like the issue may be in the mouthpiece. Rinse it out with lukewarm water and some Dawn (boy, I really seem to be endorsing kitchen products these days). To regularly clean the mouthpiece I would also recommend getting an inexpensive silk swab (the one I see a lot at music stores is the mod colored hanky style with a weighted cord attached). Just run it through SLOWLY a few times after playing.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-10-18 08:44
Brad Behn's website has great very short videos about how to swab and the mouthpiece and how to clean it periodically with a lemon juice soak. These are required viewing in my teaching studio.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-10-18 18:01
Good advice above for cleaning the mouthpiece. Never use hot water on a mouthpiece, there's a danger of warping. After each play I rinse mine in approximately body-temp water and then gently wipe it dry, and it seems to stay clean.
It's smart to swab the instrument after every play (and periodically wash the swab.) I also wipe the tenons and sockets dry with a tissue where moisture collects, but I've never seen anyone else do that.
As for washing out a clarinet, I don't know but am curious. It might be different for wood vs plastic. I wonder if doing a thorough job may entail removing the keys so the pads don't get affected.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-10-18 19:02
I wonder if moisture exposure itself would threaten pads that are intact or made of a water-resistant material like Gortex, cork or leather. But it would probably take a long time for everything to dry, and the wet pads might be hard to deal with if you try to play on it again before drying is complete. Think of your gurgling C#/G# key multiplied by 17 or so. 
Karl
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-24 22:00
Ruining my reeds by cleaning them with alcohol or mouthwash has been a long term frustration.Today for the first time I tried cleaning one with a decongestant essential oil mixture I prepared for cold relief . ( 3% Pine,Fennel, Rosemary and Citrus in a Jojoba oil base).
After treatment the reed tasted awful and sounded muffled. After 30 seconds of scrubbing the taste is gone , the scent is pleasing and the reed seems better than before treating. This single success does not constitute a science but it does give me hope for future mouldy reeds.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-10-26 10:40
My concern is mold in the lungs. So get checked by a doctor for things like assorted lung infections or damage caused by the case and the mouthpiece as well as the clarinet. Some can be deadly of course. Not to scare you, but mold is that bad. Often homes are completely leveled just from mold. Yet some molds are safe to eat.
I cannot recommend this of course because the mouthpiece and the horn is part of the body when playing. But in a house if the mold is just a small stable area you can get rid of it using bleach and water. 1/3 bleach and 2/3rds water. Use a mask. If the mold in not stable hire experts.
I worry about the clarinet case. Maybe get rid of it. Mold grows on lots of weird things.
As for the reeds throw them out. Period. As for the Rico reeds, throw these out too because they have pesticides on every reed at least once or more on some cases. I worked for Rico and I've posted this many times and sued them. They haven't sued me because they know it's true. Trial starts very soon. Probably by the end of the year. I'll keep everyone posted. They are in so much trouble.
Don't seal the reeds in plastic. The reeds can't dry out. Let them air out and even dry out completely.
As for the mouthpiece use warm water and mild dish soap to clean it every few days. If he gets a cold wash it out everyday. I've seen mold inside clarinets and on pads. the horns need to be wiped after every play. I have about 7 or 8 swabs and wash them all of the time. Remember we can't see germs and viruses. I also use bleach when I wash the swabs.
This is why I don't repair horns. It's too gross for me.
One friend uses Vodka on his reeds. But I'm against it. If the mouthpiece is dry and clean and the reed is too I like to keep the reed on the mouthpiece as the reed forms against the mouthpiece, which I call breaking in and forming a nice sound. The reed will dry out well. I don't use those metal covers that go over the entire mouthpiece.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2018-10-26 17:55
After playing wipe off the excess moisture. Blow across the reed to dry it a bit and leave the reed out to dry while disassembling the clarinet. Then put the
reed in the storage case. The point is to let the reed dry off before putting it away in an enclosed environment.
Freelance woodwind performer
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