 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-03 01:54
Recently scored a Boosey and Hawkes 1010 Symphony at a thrift store for $35.00 . Although it is playable it came without a mouthpiece. Elsewhere. I read that you can ream out a Vandoren B45 to make a useable mouthpiece for this clarinets unique bore . Since i had a rough B45 that i was willing to risk i wrapped some sandpaper around my pinky and created a sloped opening in the mouthpiece at 15.25 mm on the outside.
The 1010 then delivered some incredible tones but i couldn't deliver two notes with the same character. The instrument was so responsive that. I couldn't manage it.
For my next modification i wrapped some electrical tape around a small vial , glued on some 150 grit sandpaper and started grinding my way into the mouthpiece . My sander is 15.20 mm wide . After two hours of sanding while watching tv i now have an opening about 3/8 inch deep that is 15.25 to 15.30 mm wide followed by a taper the rest of the way. The clarinet is now more manageable and sounding great but the overtones are low and I prefer brighter overtones.
I'm hoping someone here has experience modifying mouthpieces . I don't know whether or not to keep grinding my way in . I assume the mouthpiece will brighten up if I polish the opening with 600 grit sandpaper.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-10-03 02:17
The mouthpiece bore tunes the overtones - you took to much out. Add some tape deep inside the mouthpiece a little at a time at different depths and keep checking the tuning.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-10-03 07:52
If you spent $35 on the horn, you probably won't be getting one of his mouthpieces, but you might try writing Ed Pillinger and asking for suggestions on converting a Vandoren. He's a genius at 1010 mouthpieces and a nice guy who's probably figured it out, so he might be willing to help.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-03 08:05
Wow ! I cut a piece of electrical tape about 3/8 " wide and laid it along the bottom of the mouthpiece . It reaches almost end to end. The effect is fabulous . I'm also having better luck with managing over responsiveness now.
I also own a 1927 A Fontaine and a late 1940s Wirnutzgren simple Albert clarinet. They both have unique mouthpieces. Although I love them both I often desire something more out of them . They will also be subjects of damage free tape experiments.
I am not in any way a real musician . Over the last 5 years I composed a half dozen chorus lines that I play to create different moods. Tape experimentation is going to add a whole new dimension to my quest Thanks for the suggestion.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2018-10-03 13:51
I think a 1010 needs a parallel bore in the mouthpiece.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-03 16:47
Thanks Doriepismo. I ran across Pillingers name in an old thread yesterday but I forgot to make a note of it. As a disabled retiree-dumpster diver I don' think I'll be buying any high end mouthpieces for quite a while. I sometimes scratch build reeds from Home Depot bamboo to save money.
Some of those homebuilt reeds were fabulous sounding but on average they were very fragile. I tend to shatter the best of them when I blow hard low notes.
For the time being I am quite pleased with my B45 experiment.I have another rough B45 in storage that I will dig up for my next experiment.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2018-10-04 01:55
You did well to persevere with your grinding but really this requires a reamer.
Yes it should be truly parallel at 15.25 virtually to the chamber but with the final section as it enters the windway approximating a hemisphere of same radius.
So you might getaway with a bog standard industrial parallel reamer and just finish the last bit by hang - Best of luck!!
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-04 06:51
At the moment I am very pleased with how well this mouthpiece is performing.The tape insert is leaving me feeling a little queasy though. I tried it out on my frankenet built from a box of discarded clarinet parts. It now outperforms my Buffet R13. This afternoon I discovered that this mouthpiece also allows me to play dry reeds. I absolutely hate having to rewet and reset my reeds every time I set aside my clarinets for 10 minutes or more.
I've always been afraid of how real musicians would respond to my play style and favorite rebuilds. About a year ago a symphony clarinet player invited me to join a group of professional players that meet in his home. He said my unaltered antiques would be well appreciated there.He also suggested they might also enjoy some of my resurrected scrap clarinets. The main reason they meet is to share each others equipment. I think I'm finally ready to take up his offer.
Tomorrow I hope to look into reamers and other machining options . There is a shop nearby that builds custom router bits for as little as $45.00 .For a long time I've wanted to try making bells and barrels . A proper reamer will be necessary for that venture too.
Thanks for the 15.25 mmm maximum depth suggestion. I hope to try that on my other B45.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-10-04 12:26
"Thanks for the 15.25 mmm maximum depth suggestion."
Note, this is not the depth, it's the diameter.
Tony F.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-04 19:02
I understand Carolines suggestion of 15.25 mm width to a maximum depth allowing for a spherical ending of the chamber.
I am still awed by how altering a mouthpiece can so radically transform a clarinets distinctive sound. I once read a thread in which someone stated that there were more differences between barrels and mouthpieces than there are between modern clarinets. He was trying to dissuade someone from upgrading to a Buffet R13 to satisfy their craving for a richer sound. He claimed that a polycylindrical barrel would in essence transform his lesser student clarinet into an R13. He went on to suggest that the prospective purchaser alter some expendable barrel interiors randomly to create polycylindrical barrels if he could not afford to buy a stock one or have one fabricated.
I was so excited by what he said that I immediately searched online for stock polycylindrical barrels and found nothing. In the two years since then I still haven't found access to such a stock barrel.His assertions are the main reason I want to try making my own barrels. Over the past two years I've collected a lot of exotic wood . Its about time that. I buy the cutters.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-05 07:48
I practice as much as I can with respect for the rights of my roommates and neighbours. In defense of my quest for something more instrument wise I point to Peter Eaton and. Sly and the Family Stone.
Despite a successful professional career Peters thirst for something more led him to randomly alter donated mouthpices . No highly advanced mathamatics or physics here just a combination of passion and endurance that led to the creation of the now famous Peter Eaton mouthpieces and clarinets.
I love the philosophical example of Sly and the Family Stone. I once saw a video of theirs that included more musicians than I could count . I was thrilled by the tuxedoed brass players alongside of cowboys and bearded hillbillies playing everything from trumpets to cow bells to improvised instruments. His thirst for something more and his passion for inclusivity led to the recording of some of the worlds best music.
I am also inspired by an unknown dumpster diver - improvisational busquer.He makes a living by a combination of bottle picking, scavenging garbage and street performances with spoons and cans.In his thirst for something different he discards his cans every night and seeks out a new set every day . His drumming was fabulous . I've seen him draw a cheering crowd in less than 10 seconds.
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Author: graham
Date: 2018-10-05 21:24
Can anybody explain the science behind the need for a parallel bore in the 1010 mouthpiece rather than merely a wider bore which otherwise has similar characteristics to other mouthpieces? What is so different about the 15.2 mm size that causes this?
Thanks
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2018-10-05 22:11
Home Depot Bamboo?
I sense a fake.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-06 06:19
A week ago I took the 1010s bell into the repair shop for an estimate and possible repairs. It has two nasty cracks, one 2"long and one 1". Both have slight offsets that I think might ruin the tenon cork. They recommended that I not fix them. Allegedly the cracks are old and not likely to grow or damage the cork. The repairs would be expensive up to $150.00 .The amount of material removed and replaced would reduce the value of the bell to near zero because the repairs would be clearly visible and may effect sound quality. They suggested I could fill the cracks with super glue on the outside if I was concerned with appearance but should ignore the parts of the cracks that are in the socket.
I'm both spastic and dyslexic so I stumble, fall and drop things quite often.Due to that I dont think that I should play a collectable clarinet of this value. I rarely ever play my 1955 R13 for the same reason. I am most comfortable with my crudely repaired nearly worthless clarinets because I have nothing to lose if I break them. There is a very strong local demand for this clarinet so I could easily get a couple thousand dollars for it. I have access to a never played but previously owned Backun Protege for $1000.00. I think I could handle the fear of wrecking it through a fumble or fall.
On the other hand In the 5 or 6 years I have played I haven't damaged a clarinet that I've dropped. The only problem the shop found on the clarinet was some dirt and a loose set screw that just needs to be turned in.They thought it sounded good with my mcgivered mouthpiece. I think the added pleasure of the 1010 may be worth the risk and anxiety.
I think I need a week to think about the bell and whether or not to sell the 1010. Tomorrow I will take two of my mouthpieces to retry the Protege. I tried it today with a new reed supplied by the store that was very uncooperative. It sounded promising . If it sounds about equal to the 1010 I'll probably leave a deposit while I make up my mind as to what I should do.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-10-06 07:41
"Home Depot Bamboo?
I sense a fake."
Not necessarily so. I knew an old player who had been a prisoner of war in Germany during WW2. They set up a prison orchestra using instruments that were mostly recued from scrap. He played clarinet, and restored an old German system instrument that was cracked and padless. They made reeds using cane salvaged from an old cane chair, repadded it with leather cut from a belt and made up their own hide glue. He brought it back to England when the war ended and kept it as a keepsake. He's long gone now, but I think his son may still have it.
I don't think you'll get a couple of thousand dollars for a cracked 1010 Symphony. I bought one on EBay in excellent condition for $400, and I've seen others go for between $300 and around $800.
Tony F.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-06 08:49
Only the bell is cracked. The rest of the clarinet is fine. I've been wàtching internet sales for a week now . They seem to be coming and going very fast. A few years ago they were very cheap. Someone in Japan seems to have a large supply of them. An hour ago they had eight of them listed.They are listing them at 33-3800. In the Uk they are much cheaper than everywhere else . There are many dealers asking only 1000 to 1800 pounds
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-10-07 03:29
In conclusion.
Many thanks for the advise, defense, thoughtful cosideration and prayers that helped me resolve my issues with this wonderful clarinet so quickly.
The Protege clarinet is not for me. The mouthpiece is great as it is so I'm going to stick with it. I'm going to retire the bell for the time being and repair it myself eventually. I've gotten past the fear of accidental damage so I am going to keep and enjoy the clarinet.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2018-10-08 01:35
Re Graham's post 5-10-2018 parallel bore.
It's quite likely that an "oversize" tapered bore might work on a 1010, but would result in a large mismatch between m/p exit and barrel entry bores.
It is also a fact that the exact bore size at these points high in the bore interact with the higher harmonics of each tone, so also affecting the relative tuning of the altissimo compared to lower registers.
A tapered vs parallel bore would give different relationships.
The 1010 large bore and parallel m/p design stems in part from the practices of Belgian makers of the late 1800s - early 1900s. Their instruments were of remarkably high quality and probably stemmed from empirical designs evolved over the years.
Many of those makers probably inherently worked to sound acoustical theories without actually having the tools to develop the theoretics.
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