 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-19 00:42
How about it? Anyone care to summarize use of the Pad Cup Heater?
Francoise Kloc had his trusty L56 from Ferree's. He gave me a short class as he worked on my (new) Buffet R-13 (u/j tenon had swelled). I was impressed and will probably order one. Its much easier to use than my big propane unit, and probably goes more pencil thin than it does. He claims that fuel use isn't a problem.
[[ the man is truly a MASTER ! ]]
Best,
mw
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-19 02:12
Mark,
I've never used this unit so I can't say. I'm sure it does an ample job. I have been spoiled by my no. 35 Torit dental torch and probably will never change. "B" tanks are getting more expensive to refill. I guess the "energy" crises strikes there too, but for the life of me can't understand why acetelyne would go from $8 to $10 for a refill tank to almost $20 in a few months. "B" tank fuel lasts a long time, so at least I won't have to go back for another few months and perhaps it will be cheaper. The only reason I use acetelyne is to heat shellac or George's glue into the pad cup or for silver brazing/soft soldering. I use my electric pad cup heater from Votaw for everything else.
John
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-06-19 05:53
Hi, JB -
George's glue flew right past me. What is it?
Never fails... you drop by the BB and learn somethin' whether you were lookin' to or not :] :]
- ron b -
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-19 10:33
Last week I received the Ferree's L90 center bunsen burner. It uses propane as fuel. It produces a very small, gentle flame, like an alcohol lamp but is better than the lamp. Ferree's no longer carries the L12 bunsen burner.
I purchased the smaller, less expensive (than L56) L60 torch from Ferree's. The Ferree's rep recommended the L56 for frequent use since it isn't the fuel guzzler that the L56 appears to be. However, he said that the L60 was okay for infrequent use (my case). I would like to know how effective the L56 adjustable air/gas control is, as the L60 cannot be adjusted. I assume the adjustment helps control the size of the flame, and reduce fuel use.
So, now I have the L90 propane bunsen burner, L60 butane torch, alcohol lamp, and a soldering gun with modified tips. I returned the Votaw resistance soldering tool. I miss it, and may order it again.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-19 11:37
Ron,
Georges glue is a pad cement sold by JL Smith and Ed Kraus. It works very well in that it cools slowly in order to allow you float the pad correctly. It takes some getting used to, but once you've used it you'll never use anything else.
John
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-19 13:50
Francois Kloc of Buffet demonstrated the L56 for me, as related above. he said it was not a guzzler. The flame can go from a lighter to very, very pencil thin (hardly visible). He said he works with it at a very low setting (constantly on) for periods of time, all the time. I wonder if the Ferree's person you spoke with is mistaken or making a statement out of context? I was very specificin my query to Francois regarding (quick) useage of the L56's fuel.
Bill, have you played at all with the Bunsen Burner? Have you tried what we have been referring to as "glancing blows" with it? (thinking that this technique would still be used if the keys are ON the horn)
JB, what is a "B" tank? Is it a tank full of Acetelyne? Why "B" ?
Best,
mw
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-19 17:52
Mark,
Gas welding tanks are sized by alphabet letters. The "B" take size is fairly standard for repair shops, although I worked in one where they used a "WW" (huge" tank with a two or three way split to so that more than one tech could work off the one tank). The "C" tank is the next size down and would probably be enough for the home repair shop person who only does work once in awhile. I have two "B" tanks set up. One has my trusty Torit dental torch attached and the other one has my Turbo Torch for silver brazing and soft soldering attached to it.
John
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-19 19:34
Bill, gotcha ... NOW. The L56 is $52.50 + the fuel ... so it not Unreasonable in price. The l60 was, what, about $16.50 or so, right?
JB, thanks. Is there an "A" Tank?
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-19 22:10
The L60 is $16.70 plus fuel.
I was just experimenting with the L90 bunsen burner ($54.50 plus propane tank). It's flame can be adjusted very small which easily melts French cement and stick shellac. I removed it from it's holder and used it to melt the cement into the cup. I placed it in it's holder, and heated the cup to distribute the cement, and prepare it for the pad. I didn't use it with the cup on the horn, but it should work with glancing blows, and even direct (at least on large cups) since it's flame can be made small. I'm not advocating direct, but it seems viable. I've never seen the L56 so I don't know how it compares, but the bunsen burner easily beats the L60.
Micro-Mark currentlyhas the Votaw on sale for about $127.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-19 22:28
oooh --- its getting enticing ain't it (sales are falling. or the markup ain't holding for sure one)
Heck when we are through here we will have to get special licenses from the local Fire Dep't.
Best,
mw
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-19 23:00
Mark,
Don't think there is an "A" tank. I would have to go to the local welding supply and look at their tank chart. Certain letters are for acetelyne and others are for the oxygen tanks. It could be that there is an "A" tank but it may be for oxygen or NAPP gas.
John
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-06-20 03:33
Well dang-a-lang. (I just paid the list price.) Well, maybe it was worth it. I have been using low-temp hot glue gun sticks and with the volton, I just grip the back of the key, count time, rub the stick inside the cup, and press in a pad. Once I put the key back on the horn, I run a leak light up, reheat (with the light in place) and press. So far, very good results. (I am using a flashlight bulb, wires soldered on & a 9 volt battery with a switch -- pretty cheap leak light for an amateur like me. I assume that for a pro, battery cost would justify something that plugs in.
Also, I have found that I can get key parts just hot enough to accept glue stick and then press on cork. With a flame, I could never get the key the right amount hot. Either not enough hot and the cork peals off, or It is too hot and the glue would glob too thick, stay runny, and I would either end up with a mess or the pad glued to my fingers.
Is there a reason I shouldn't be using glue gun glue for key cork? (not for joints)
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-20 05:05
Jim, I know of some folks who use super glue on tenons and key corks. they swear by it. I was taught to use the contact cement (like the type sold by Ferree's). I have never heard of using glue gun glue (or shellac0 for key corks. I am a just a beginner, so I am sure the pro's around here will tell us.
Best,
mw
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-06-20 10:21
Shellac or contact cement is what's recommended in some repair books. I like contact cement- follow directions.
Jim: If you purchases the resistance soldering tool from Micro-Mark you probably got free shipping. Now, the price is lower, but there's a $10+ charge for shipping.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-20 12:27
Jim,
On "make play" jobs that I get from a local music store I often use the method you describe on kickers, especiallyon saxophones. On clarinets I still like to use contact cement on the key corks. However, on saxes there are some keys that you have to take a whole stack off to get to the one that needs cork....much simpler to use hot melt and the trusty Votaw tool, heat and it's done. I also use Votaw's "Surduzstik" brand of hot melt when doing this. It does have a higher temperature melting range. I have not had any "creep" off yet.
John
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-20 13:13
I run into tenons that have shellac on the tenons corks & key corks. there always seems to be a VOID area. For this reason, I will stick with contact cement.
JB, I heard not a peep from you on the issue of super glue (or a "cryo") on key & tenon corks. Have you run into it, or suspected its use yet?
Thanks.
mw
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-06-20 14:06
I find superglue unsuitable in most situations because it is so very brittle, so fussy about clean surfaces, more soluble in solvents. Very messy if spilt. Dangerous. Very slow to set - needs clamping - on some surfaces. The nozzle clogs. Short shelf life. Although it glues fingers instantly contact glue will last for longer. Evostik contact adhesive (from Britain) is by far the best cork glue I have used. I have soaked the result in lighter fluid and acetone for days, and oil for weeks and it still holds securely. It also dries for assembly within about 1 minute. There is no problem with 'creep' on small areas. There seems to be no agent in America, and unless I am mistaken, America is such an unfree country that you are not allowed to import it yourself. Come to New Zealand!
BTW for pad glue I put SOLID glue in the cup and then heat the cup. To get small solid drips of shellac I have done a bulk supply by melting shellac stick so it drips onto a teflon sheet (as used by cooks for baking). For the rare times I use glue gun glue I still carve off chunks and apply in solid form. 2 advantages: 1. Easily ensure that there is sufficient heat to form a really good bond with the metal. 2. less glue up the walls of the pad cup, hence less chance of an air bubble behind the pad, which gives an insecure backing, especially with the more 'mobile' stick glues, and greatly increases the likelihood of glue oozing out as the bubble expands with heat.
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