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 New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-09-24 04:49

Finally, Breitkopf is going to publish the high quality editions of Mahler symphonies. Notably, also for the first time I believe, they will publish B-flat transposition for C-clarinet and A-bass clarinet. So it seems obvious that C-clarinet will have a similar destiny as A-bass clarinet.

https://www.breitkopf.com/assets/pdf/catalogs/Subscr_Mahler_EN.pdf

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: dorjepismo 2017
Date:   2018-09-24 18:45

Great news. Disagree on the C clarinet, though. A few decades ago, it was written off, but an increasing number of pros now, especially in opera, are using them in order to remain faithful to the composers' intentions. Just played a borrowed C in the overture to Rossini's Barber, and it really is its own instrument. The switch to A in the middle is quite pronounced. I don't know if anyone even makes a Boehm system A bass now, so it's a different situation.

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 03:23

Well, not using bass A is also not faithful to the composer's intention.

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 04:39

Klose wrote:

> Well, not using bass A is also not faithful to the composer's
> intention.

C clarinets are readily available at relatively reasonable prices. Bass clarinets in A are not. If you can actually get one at all on special order or by finding an old one for sale, it will not be affordable for most clarinetists.

We do need to do our performing in the real world. :)

Karl

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 04:43

But I don't find fault with Breitkopf's publishing transposed C clarinet parts for those who are going to play a C part on a Bb. It beats passing a part to the next user with letter names (some inevitably incorrect) scribbled over every note.

Karl

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 06:51

>> But I don't find fault with Breitkopf's publishing transposed C clarinet parts for those who are going to play a C part on a Bb.>>

No, neither do I. But I do find fault with Klose's ignorant opinions about the qualities of C clarinets.

William points out that it's its own instrument – as many composers including Mahler and particularly, Strauss, realised. Klose does a disservice to the musical world in this, and he (or she, how would we know?) deserves condemnation for it.

>> It beats passing a part to the next user with letter names (some inevitably incorrect) scribbled over every note. >>

I don't encounter this in my professional work. However, I do still encounter here, when I bother to look again, Klose's incorrect and still uncorrected transposition of the clarinet part of Beethoven's violin concerto slow movement:

http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=461485&t=461455

A small story: as the newly appointed principal clarinet in the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, I had occasion in 1969 to play in a recording of a Donizetti Opera, 'Roberto Devereux'. There was an Italian vocal coach whose job it was to look after the singers' Italian pronunciation, and so on, and in the orchestra I'd taken it upon myself to play the C clarinet parts on the appropriate instrument, which was a very unusual move at the time in England.

I began to warm the instrument up, and the vocal coach looked round, then hurried into the orchestra. "Clarinetto in Do!!" he exclaimed. "Complimenti!!"

Some people understand.

Tony



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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 08:22

Tony, as usual, you misunderstood me.

Please note I did NOT ignore the qualities of C clarinets. However, based on the current situation, I just speculate this instrument does not have a bright future.

Several points to consider:

1. Less and less professional orchestral players use it.

2. Publisher realized point 1 and began to publish transposed music.

3. Most major manufactures do not make C clarinets anymore, excerpt for one model from Buffet.

I also do not blame people who still use (or not) this instrument. My feeling is just like when I see some people still use film camera to take pictures. It is interesting, but unfortunately...

Btw, for my amateur transposition, I have deleted it. Of course, on my computer, it was corrected. If someone needs it, please simply email me. My apology for that wrong note and thank Tony for pointing it out.



Post Edited (2018-09-25 08:26)

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 08:44

And Tony,

I would very much like to know your opinion about the fact that some people play Mozart clarinet concerto using viola (as well as Beethoven violin concerto on flute, Mendelssohn violin concerto on flute, Brahms op.120 on flute, Schumann op.94 on clarinet etc.). According to your theory, they definitely deserve more condemnation than me, right? :)

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-09-25 10:25

In fact the C clarinet is growing in usage if my colleagues are anything to go by, rather than being used by FEWER an FEWER professionals.

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-09-25 11:08

donald,

Interesting. Which model of instrument do they use?

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-09-26 10:08

When I returned to NZ in 1998 there was only 1 C clarinet I knew of in the whole country... An Orsi. Since then... 2 Buffet c clarinets, a Ridenour, 2 wooden Amati (both of which play fairly nicely once tuning customisation work was done) and wooden French... Not sure of the make. Plus a store here rents out Amati plastic ones, so there are a few of those in circulation sold as ex rentals (they actually quite well with some attention). That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. But there seriously was only ONE in 1998, at least owned by Pro players...

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-09-26 10:58

Oh, and a Patricola. This influx is probably caused partially by the Internet making it easier to find/buy instruments.

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: davyd 
Date:   2018-09-26 22:45

How do people feel about using an Eb clarinet in place of a D clarinet? How available and affordable (however one defines those) are D clarinets?

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-09-27 00:29

For the three pieces I've ever played in my lifetime that called for D clarinet (Le Sacre, Till and a Schoenberg piece, though I've forgotten which) I've never been able to justify the cost of a D. I did play the Schoenberg on a D clarinet borrowed for the occasion from the Philadelphia Orchestra. The Stravinsky and Strauss are so routinely played on Eb clarinets that I don't feel intensely guilty. If I had a D clarinet available, even at some inconvenience, I would borrow it for those as well.

As I've mentioned, the Philadelphia Orchestra owns a D clarinet (as it also, I think, owns C clarinets for its players' use, which wasn't the case in the 1950s through the '70s). If I played in an orchestra that owned a D, I would certainly use it when it's called for.

But there is, to refer back to the start of this thread, a great deal more in the literature for C clarinet and much more opportunity to use it than there is for a D.

Karl

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 Re: New Mahler Editions from Breitkoph
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-09-28 06:17

My colleague who has a Ridenour C clarinet has found that people don't notice a huge change of sound when he uses that instrument. I am keen to look into this/test this out- but he claims that his wife, an opera singer, can't tell which is which in a blind test... I find that surprising as the C clarinets by Orsi, Patricola and Amati all have a tone quality very obviously different to the B flat. The Buffet C clarinet are less obviously eccentric, but still identifiable as a different clarinet.

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