 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 1999-04-26 02:28
When I started on Clarinet in the 50s, I was warned not to get a metal instrument (or ELSE!). Apparently they were out there somewhere, and there was something terribly wrong with them.
A few years ago I purchased a Cundy-Bettony "Three Star" metal clarinet. It was impossible to tune it so that all the notes could be played in tune. Either the throat tones were in tune, or the lower notes were.
I recently obtained a tuner that could be reset for a pitch between A = 434 and 446. I decided to find out if the metal clarinet might be in tune at some other pitch. Apparently A = 446 is the magic number, with the barrel pulled out about 3/32 inch. Nearly every note is in tune or can be lipped up or down to be in tune. It doesn't sound bad at all.
Although some say it is because they are loud and "stick out", I'm convinced that the basis of the hatred of metal clarinets is that many were made for a higher pitch.
Some have claimed that high pitch meant A = 456, but that seems rather extreme. On the other hand, some antique instrument ensembles tune one full semitone low, to minimize stress on the string instruments. Does anyone know of an authoritative source about common pitch in the early part of the century?
Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
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Author: Doug
Date: 1999-04-26 02:39
H.P. is 456 HZ, and this is not someone's claim. It is a
fact. L.P. is 435 HZ.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-04-26 05:38
When speaking in terms of High and Low Pitch, high means A=456. But A=446 isn't particularly far out. Some orchestras still play up that far. Granted not many.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-04-26 05:41
Doug wrote:
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H.P. is 456 HZ, and this is not someone's claim. It is a
fact. L.P. is 435 HZ.
Low Pitch is 400, the French and German standard in the mid-1800's was 435.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-04-26 05:42
Daniel wrote:
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Low Pitch is 400, the French and German standard in the mid-1800's was 435.
errr... typo, i meant 440.
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Author: Uecker
Date: 1999-04-27 14:00
Supposed to be about the letters, but the strike zone tends to be a little lower in the American League.
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Author: Doug
Date: 1999-04-29 14:04
"Standard" pitch today is A =440. However, that is an international agreement reached in 1939. Instruments which are marked L.P. for low pitch are generally before 1939 and are not A440, but A435. This seems close enough for most people to adjust to today's standard.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-29 17:49
According to what I have read, while Low Pitch A=440 was formally adopted in 1939 by an international congress, it was the "standard" low pitch for the preceding 40 years or so and is what is meant by the markings on instruments. There was a Low Pitch of A=435 recognized by an international body in the late 1800s but no one seems to have adopted it even though it was supposed to be an international standard.
I have three Albert system clarinets (at least one has the original mouthpiece) marked LP and each is in tune at A=440.
If they had been built to A=435, they would be about 20 cents flat on a tuner throughout their range.
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Author: Doug
Date: 1999-05-02 02:07
Here is a quote from the Harvard Dictionary of Music:"The
present-day standard of pitch is a'= 440 vibrations per
second. This standard was universally adopted in 1939 by an international conference held in London under the auspices of the International Standards Association. It replaced the old standard of 435 that had been fixed by the Paris Academy in 1858 (diapason normal) and confirmed, under the term 'international ptich,' at a conference held in Vienna in 1885."
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 1999-05-02 02:32
Doug wrote:
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"Standard" pitch today is A =440. However, that is an international agreement reached in 1939. Instruments which are marked L.P. for low pitch are generally before 1939 and are not A440, but A435. This seems close enough for most people to adjust to today's standard.
Doug-
The trouble with A435, is that to shorten a clarinet that much, you need a shorter barrel. I think you will find the A435 instrument retuned to A440, won't be in tune with itself.
This brings me to a related subject: compromise tuning. According to a Selmer clarinet brochure from around 25 years back, it is appropriate to pull out between the top and bottom body sections of a clarinet, if it will help make the instrument be in tune with itself. (Certainly there can be an improvement, although maybe not enough for an extreme case.)
However, this approach is only good for an instrument pitched slightly high. It wouldn't work for an instrument pitched low (A435), or an instrument that doesn't come apart in the middle!
Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-05-03 02:45
Doug wrote:
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Here is a quote from the Harvard Dictionary of Music:"The
present-day standard of pitch is a'= 440 vibrations per
second. This standard was universally adopted in 1939 by an international conference held in London under the auspices of the International Standards Association. It replaced the old standard of 435 that had been fixed by the Paris Academy in 1858 (diapason normal) and confirmed, under the term 'international ptich,' at a conference held in Vienna in 1885."
Which explains why this 1903 Buffet that i have says LP and below it 440. While the 435 was used up through the late 19th century, the Oxfordand Harvard Dictionaries do not mention the difference between HP and LP. And it has been well compared and tested that Low Pitch was A-440. Paul Cohen on his CD "Vintage Saxophones Revisited" des a nice demonstration playing a LP and HP sax of the same make and model together (aided by the wonders of technology, of course).
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