 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-08-20 21:29
Hi - I’m a 56 year old new empty-nester whose playing skills peaked in 1980 (low chair in NY All State and a fair bit of chamber music). I played through college and grad school but perhaps a grand total of 5 hours over the last 30 years. I’d like to take this fairly seriously for the next year - maybe an hour a day 5-6 days per week - and reevaluate my progress and interest. I’d like to bring my skill to the point where I could play with the community theater group’s annual musicals. (Maybe they won’t need me but that’s my artificial target). I don’t expect that to happen in a year but I want to feel like I’m tracking toward it. I’m also more interested in playing by ear than mastering various concerti or the Kegelstatt.
I have 2 kids in college so can’t take the private lesson approach for now nor can I afford to upgrade equipment. My trusty Selmer 10G needs pads and while I used to do them myself that’s not the skill that I wish to relearn. I suspect my HS* is still playable though I wish that I could find my Vandoren V45.
Any suggestions on where or how to start? I think my Klosé is in the attic (maybe shacking up with the V45) along with lots of sheet music that I kept “just in case”. I see a lot of YouTube videos including a ton by Michelle Anderson. There must be other online resources.
Thanks!
Max
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2018-08-20 21:54
Hi Max,
I'm 71 and quit playing many decades ago when I developed embouchure dystonia. I, too, have decided to restart. I'd like to take lessons, however, I live, pretty much, in the middle of nowhere in Utah.
This BB, IMHO, is full of very qualified clarinetists. When I read your post, something popped into my head that I never thought about before. Yes, there are many professional teachers who offer lessons over the Internet for various fees, however, I believe there might be a few who would be willing, at least, to give you a lesson or two "to get you started", "check your embouchure", etc., via Facebook video.
Anyway, it's just a thought...
Good luck!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-08-20 23:20
Well you can't start on a leaky clarinet, so I would suggest trying a set of the Valentino Greenback clarinet pads ($35.00 at Music and Arts). You can just stick them into position......or, use hot glue and a hair dryer to set them (I swear, a lot of Valentino based repair guys use this method). The great thing about the Valentinos is that they are a VERY forgiving, mushy white foam. Therefore seating is not an issue. They will seal over even problematic tone holes and they seal like a coke bottle!!!!
The other odd suggestion is to try the Legere European Signature reeds. Yes, honing in on the right strength takes a some trial and error. For this I suggest using Amazon........they take everything back for refund! The Legere European Signatures are used by some of the finest players out there rather than cane for their sound as well as:
1. Constancy = will play the same tomorrow as it did today
2. Hygromatically impervious = not affected by changes in humidity
3. Durability = six months to a year opposed to a box of reeds every month
Anyway, I think getting back in the game would be hard enough without having to break in reeds every month to a month and a half.
As for what to work on, I have always been a "back to basics" guy and recommend dusting off a Baermann Complete Method book III, but I did start playing by ear and there's nothing wrong with that.....playing is playing.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2018-08-21 00:01
Hi Dmax!
Welcome to the bboard, and welcome back to the old (as I once heard reedist extraordinaire, Ray Moore, call it) misery stick. ;^)>>>
Many folks on this bboard have a "lapse" in their playing - so hopefully you'll receive lots of answers.
I was forced away from clarinet for about 10 years. Upon returning, I ran into certain hurdles.
The first (even though I was watching for it): I became frustrated with my lack of being able to do what I used to do. Patience is key, and starting at the beginning and working slowly forward was the key for me.
I started with "what was familiar" to me - the same clarinet, the same mouthpiece...even the same reed brand, strength, etc. This worked for me.
I agree with Paul Aviles in that it would be best to have your clarinet looked at to make sure it is in good playing condition. Even if high, the cost will be worth it in the long run. Leaks will most likely prevent you from applying proper technique, and might cause you all sorts of problems/bad habits that you'll have to deal with. Even if just a one-time repad/repad as needed, it might help you avoid serious issues with your playing later.
I'd also recommend a certain amount of "fun" play. I found re-learning to be fairly tedious until I decided to depart from the normal routine, and decided to play more of the music I truly enjoyed (caveat - I now play old time jazz almost entirely.) For me, approaching music after a break gave me a lot more freedom to explore areas that were blocked off for me before.
Along that same idea: for me, I had to learn not to take the endeavor of re-learning so seriously. Part of my frustration came from me being too hard on myself, too strict. It doesn't have to be that way. Once I started having fun, relaxing, and changed my approach - progress came fairly quickly.
Know that your body has changed. Things aren't necessarily in the same place as they were (teeth/jaw?), and muscles aren't exactly in the same shape they had been. Expect some things to feel foreign at first. Things that used to be automatic might require a little thought - and possibly outright frustration. For me, those things went away fairly quickly, but I do remember being frustrated by them (embouchure for one).
Best of luck, and welcome back to the clarinet!
Fuzzy
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-08-23 00:35
Thanks guys!
I have pads and a reed on order - thank you Amazon.
I'm only interested in playing for fun. This is for recreation and mental stimulation, not auditions nor comparing myself to the 18 year-old me! If the local theater company (who desperately needed another woodwind for Spamalot!) is too type-A I won't bother with them.
I'll be back next week when I'm having trouble with the pads.
Dave
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2018-08-23 02:27
Welcome back!
I would say check out some of the amazing online resources to get you some motivation to get back playing again.
Something like Michelle Anderson’s Clarinet Mentors is a worldwide community of adult players, and it even offers a sense of community. Also, some artists have some real great YouTube channels like Michael Lowenstern which offer great playing advice, interesting commentary, and even product reviews.
I would also suggest some podcasts like Ed Joffe’s Woodwind Legacy Series, and Clarineat (full disclosure, I host this show!).
I hope you reach your goal of playing in the community wind band one day!
Best wishes,
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Late_returner
Date: 2018-08-23 13:21
Hi Dmax
I'm glad you have found Michelle Andersons resource.
Two other things that you might like to consider...
1/ there is a book called " Improvise for Real" which is not clarinet specific but a general "how to learn music" tutor. It teaches the importance of ear development and playing away from the dots right from the start as you progress, not as an add on after you have learnt your instrument.
2/ Prof David Etheridge produced a 3 stage Clarinet Method in addition to his famous Clarinet for Dummies. I am always surprised that this Method gets so little exposure since I think it really good for adult restarters.
Good luck !
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-08-24 20:18
How about bore oil? There are tons of posts about it but I'm not sure what my approach should be on a long-dormant instrument. I bought it from my teacher ($400?) in 1977 who replaced it with a Buffet and spent the next 3-4 years trying to convince me to sell/trade it back. I don't know who long he had it before then but it could easily be college which would have been 10+ years earlier. I probably used oil at the time but I don't know how often.
Should it get a dose or 2 before I start playing it?
Thanks
Max
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2018-08-25 00:48
Hi Dmax,
Yeah, the bboard is pretty well split on oil/no oil. However, I think even quite a few of those in the "no oil" camp change their opinion when speaking of long-dormant instruments.
I, myself, am fully in the "no oil" camp...but I have a favorite clarinet I've had in storage for 15 years, and I suspect that I'll probably oil it when I bring it out of storage. (I've never oiled a clarinet yet...so I still can't say for sure what I'll do.) ;^)>>>
I'm not sure if opening a new thread asking this question would help you get closer to the answer or not. It might simply turn into another heated "to oil or not to oil" debate, or perhaps people would avoid reading the question altogether - thinking it was going to just be another "to oil or not to oil" debate! ;^)>>>
I don't know that there is a definitive right or wrong answer. There seems to be reasoning that oiling the wood (especially if very dry) will help saturate the wood with oil - which leaves less room for water, and which exits the wood much slower than water would evaporate - thus, leaving the wood's saturation level more stable/consistent. It makes sense to me - I just haven't done it yet. Hopefully someone will respond to you and provide you with first-hand experience.
Best of luck,
Fuzzy
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2018-08-26 05:40
I was low chair All State as well. I kept my practicing going during 19 years teaching Band. 15 minutes a day. This kept me in good enough shape to play professionally in bands/orchestras during summer vacation and on rare occasions during school year (I do have a Masters in clarinet perf. so that's a good start). After retiring, I progressed to an hour. I believe my playing did improve quite a bit--to the point where I played the Nielsen. Anyway, you obviously are good being All State.
My advice is simple--one I did for many years up until about 10 years ago.
Buy all the hard method books you can. No, I'm not just trying to sell my own book. I'm talking the Jettels, Hites, Zitek, Polaschek. There are so many. My method of buying was going into brick & mortar stores and looking completely through a book, deciding if it was hard enough. I've got more than I'll need for the rest of my life.
Solos are OK as well--maybe not as good to improve your technical playing. Of course, if you want to perform them....
Tone, reeds, mouthpiece, etc.--Too many options and personal preferences. Not my area of expertise--having basically used the same setup for 40 years (with one mp change).
Good luck and enjoy.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: DougR
Date: 2018-08-26 19:31
Hi Dmax--
welcome back to the fray!
These are all great suggestions, I'm just going to kibitz a little.
You might try finding (if you don't already have in mind) a player who really, really makes you want to practice harder so you can sound like 'that'. (for me it was Benny Goodman when I was a kid; later on it was Paul Meyer and his recording of the French clarinet staples, Debussy, St-Saens, et al.)--a player who gets you actively buzzed about playing (just echoing the idea that 'it should be FUN not work').
As to 'what to practice', a story: I was at an Eddie Daniels clinic in the NYC area some years ago, and in the audience were a raft of studio pros who'd all played with Eddie back when he was local to NYC. At the Q&A someone asked him 'How do you stay in shape?' He responded by playing the beginning C scale in one of the scale sequences in Baermann III, and everyone chuckled out of recognition. We've all played it at one time or another, and I guarantee if you start every practice session with the scale sequence, the thirds exercise, the broken chord tonguing exercise, and the chromatic sequences, NICE and slow, in a month's time you'll have your old mojo back.
The guy I currently study with bought the "Play with a Pro" lesson with Yehuda Gilad, and found it very worthwhile. Something like that you can buy once, and re-watch countless times, and (if you're like me) hear something new with every viewing. I don't know what other top-tier clarinetists have courses on that channel, or similar channels, but it's worth considering.
But that's all just me. There are so many resources out there nowadays (as previously enumerated by our Board colleagues) that you can just go for what floats YOUR boat.
Have fun, congratulations, welcome back!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-08-28 07:55
I didn't read the above posts. I'll fix your horn since you are broke and set you up with a mouthpiece. I collect mouthpieces, reface the decent ones and make them. So I'm sure I have a Vandoren in decent condition. I will also set you up with a box of reeds. Send me your address. Your cost is shipping. I do this with a few people as well that are tight on money, every 2 weeks send a recording of a lessen and I will give you some feedback. If you post your lessen on this forum players will surely help you out.
My goal is to make music fun, not expensive. It would be a blast to see you get into a community band as soon as possible.
You seem like a cool father sending kids to college! I'll try to help.
savagesax@aol.com
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Toffeeman
Date: 2018-08-28 16:11
I re- started at 58
I have been through lots of instruments but the Buffet B12 is the best student instrument with a Yamaha 4 or 5c mouthpiece. Otherwise Yamaha 23n or 26ii model. Rico 1.5 or 2 reeds to start.
if you are OK with your current instrument make sure it is totally leak free first otherwise it wont play.
Try the book Clarinet basics to remind you of the scales and arpeggios and where the notes are on the staff vs the instrument. I finished the book in one month.
After that you should be close to where you last left off
Good luck
John
johnpj1000@yahoo.com
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-08-29 08:40
Thanks everyone!
Tom H - Very impressive. I didn’t have Nielsen chops back in the day and I don’t think I ever will but that’s ok. As I go I’ll discover where my ambitions lead me.
Doug - Despite Benny being the king I’ve always been an Artie Shaw man myself. A dream piece is probably his Concerto, with or without that final high Z. As I’m unlikely to run across a swing band, I anticipate getting more joy from local theater. I love hanging out with music lovers! I can always tackle Begin the Beguine for fun.
Late_returner - I will definitely check out the improv book. Dad - an above average amateur pianist of every genre from Mozart to Tin Pan Alley and hymns - had me playing by ear before I knew the C scale.
Bob - what a spectacularly generous offer! (My way of paying it forward was donating my time to our charter school as a substitute teacher for band and chorus. I had to take a buck a year for their insurance. I may not have an embouchure anymore but I can still wave my arms and laugh. Even though my kids have graduated I think I’ll go back and volunteer to teach some woodwind sectionals) I’m inclined to accept your offer but Ill pay for materials. I’m stretched, not destitute. A pack of pads and artificial reed arrived today though I’m skeptical about the reed. I bought the softest they had.
Tomorrow I’ll see if I can get a classic open B flat with it.
G’nite
Max
david_maxwell@mac.com
Post Edited (2018-08-29 08:42)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2018-08-30 01:29
Another great source of music is something I ran into a year ago. The Clarinet Institute of Los Angeles. You can google them and find tons of method books and solos (most of this, but not all, is contemporary). Ranges from pretty easy to very difficult. This is not copyright stuff. I assume by composers who just want exposure--so pick & choose and Xerox away. I have found it to be very challenging.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2018-08-30 01:30)
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Author: tominmn
Date: 2018-09-27 00:30
That is a very classy response and so very generous with your time and resources. It's folks like you that make the music world a better place!
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-10-01 08:57
Progress Report:
Well I'm one whole week in and having a grand time. Bob Bernardo is my hero, having given my ax a top-to-bottom fix. I'm now using one of his Vintage 1940 mouthpieces which I absolutely love! I tried my HS* but the Vintage is a lot more free-blowing and gives me a fine, warm tone -- much easier to enjoy. I had some Vandoren 3s but bought some 2.5s which suit my flabby lip for now. (In HS I played a 5 but that would feel like a popsicle stick) I bought a Legere but at the moment the cane feels better.
On day 1 I played for all of 4 minutes before my lip quit on me. 6 days later I'm at 20! 20 minutes may not sound like much but I'm satisfied. I could go longer but at that point if I stop focusing on my embouchure for a nanosecond I get lazy and it "droops".
I haven't looked at a book yet and may not for a little while. I'm playing a lot of chromatic exercises and major scales plus long tones and fairly random jumps across the break, trying to keep my breath control going in the Clarion. Then I try fun/silly stuff by ear - Harry Potter themes, The Simpsons, showtunes, etc. Next I'll pick out a few hymns for 89 year-old mom, and cowboy songs for my buddy who likes to embarrass the kids.
In another week or three I'll find or buy some books but at the moment I'd rather pay attention to how my mouth and fingers feel. Once I start dialing that in I'll look at some spots. For now, who needs 'em? That said, you guys gave me so many book suggestions that it will be fun to dive back in. Then it will be time to reacquaint myself with Wolfgang Amadeus and Carl Maria.
Thanks everyone!
Max
david_maxwell@mac.com
Post Edited (2018-10-01 09:11)
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Author: Victor P
Date: 2018-10-03 03:59
It looks like you have everything you need. Just start practicing regularly. Start with long notes (play all of them in different order each day - takes 25 min or so), than scales and arpeggios. I'd say, 1-1.5 hour a day is enough. Try to practice not less than 40 min though. Do this for 9 days, than rest for one day, repeat. in 3-4 weeks try a piece from the standard repertoire. Get them from a library, if you can.
You got this
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-10-03 19:35
Thanks Victor,
My plan is to practice a hour per day, split into craft, exercises, and ear training. I harken back to the days when I had an adjustable speed turntable!
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-10-09 07:31
Week 2 update is nearly identical to week 1 but I’m able to play for about an hour and my fingers and lip are coming back. The ear is a little behind - what bugs me is that if I work out Sir Duke today I have to find it again tomorrow. Intervals aren’t “sticking “.
Clarineat is great - loved Stanley Drucker!
MP now feels like an old friend- thanks again Bob Bernardo!
I have Benign Essential Tremor which at times gives me unintended vibrato but not terrible.
By next week I plan to crack a method book and/or start Michelle Anderson videos.
Max
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2018-10-09 08:32
Congrats, Max! Thanks for the updates! Your excitement is contagious!
Fuzzy
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Author: Dmax
Date: 2018-10-09 18:15
Thanks for listening! At the moment I don’t have any real-life clarinet buddies so I’m boring people here.
david_maxwell@mac.com
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2018-10-11 23:47
Hi, Dmax. welcome back to the world of the clarinet.
I returned to playing at age 66 after being away from it for over 35 years. Two years later it is my passion. There are some really good suggestions in the comments above, many of which helped me along in getting back to having fun playing.
I second Fuzzy's suggest to play "fun" stuff, whatever that is for you. "Fun" is motivating. "Fun" is what makes you want to keep playing.
If you're lucky to live in an area that has one or more community bands open to returning musicians, I found that that was my real ticket to rebooting my skills once I felt comfortable that I could play (and read) simple pop tunes and marches again. Some American Legion posts and social clubs have bands open to non-members as well. (A community orchestra would work too, although they typically don't use as many clarinets. Bands use lots of clarinets.) If there is one around, make contact and ask if they will let you sit in in last chair to see if you can hang with them. Many of the more seasoned players may be happy to welcome you and mentor you along. I found that playing with others in such a group not only dragged me along in skill-bulding and motivation, but gave me the bonus of a social network of musicians. I also found it important to give myself permission (and to make it known to others) that when the going got too tough (which is will for awhile) I would simply drop out and not get in the way until we got back to a place that I could handle. (It helps if you're not the only one playing that part.) I started last chair in a 25-piece Am. Legion band with four other clarinets only months after returning to playing - and they were happy to put up with me. Two years later I'm playing better than I did when I quit all those years ago (although I still have trouble with five sharps). The music may not excite you if you were into chamber music and classical before, but playing with any group will will help kick-start your skills.
This bulletin board is a treasure trove of info and wisdom. I read it and learn from it all of the time.
Good Luck and Happy Playing!
Ken
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