 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AGH
Date: 2018-07-04 20:58
Hi all,
I've been struggling with getting a clean, pure sound. I've found that the day after an long-extended practice session, I get an airy sound with a harsh kind of quality to the sound. Most reeds are like this, (besides the really good ones). Though after a few days of little playing, the sound comes back clean and clear.
I've checked my embouchure, tongue position, air support, and done breathing exercises. I don't really know what to do. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-07-04 22:21
The problem is most likely a new reed the day after a long-extended session. Are you following any kind of break-in routine? In general, most players don't play for extended time on a new reed. Try limiting your play time on a new reed to 5 minutes or so the first time you play it, maybe 10 minutes the next time and then, to be sure, one more shortened time - 15 or 20 minutes - before you try to use it for longer stretches. Use an older, more seasoned reed for the rest of your sessions while breaking the new one in.
If this is happening with older reeds, it's still probably an issue resulting from soaking and drying the reed, only now it's because older reeds' fibers are more closed and it takes longer for water to soak into them. You may just need to wet it longer before you try to play on it. Or you could try storing your reeds with a humidifier like a Boveda humidity pack or a Rico Reed Saver (same thing, costs more) to keep them from drying out completely.
Another practice, which I have been doing but won't swear is of any benefit, that I once read about in conjunction with breaking new reeds in is to massage the vamp (the tapered part) front and back firmly toward the tip against a flat surface. This seems to squeeze some of the excess water out of the cane and flattens down any fibers that were raised as the reed became wet over time.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-07-04 22:22
Air, instead of tone would indicate to me that your choice of reed strength is too high. That would also be a problem when your embouchure is weakened after a long day of practicing. Also, once you break-in cane reeds, they play a bit softer than they do initially.
I would suggest trying a half strength softer. I used to bite quite a bit. Brad Behn observed me playing and said I should use a reed a half strength softer and start off by NOT pressing so hard. That way, the softer reed starts off at that "vibrating point" as opposed to getting the harder reed there after biting it to that point.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: m1964
Date: 2018-07-05 07:31
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Air, instead of tone would indicate to me that your choice of
> reed strength is too high. That would also be a problem when
> your embouchure is weakened after a long day of practicing.
> Also, once you break-in cane reeds, they play a bit softer than
> they do initially.
>
>
> I would suggest trying a half strength softer. I used to bite
> quite a bit. Brad Behn observed me playing and said I should
> use a reed a half strength softer and start off by NOT pressing
> so hard. That way, the softer reed starts off at that
> "vibrating point" as opposed to getting the harder reed there
> after biting it to that point.
>
>
>
>
> ..............Paul Aviles
>
Yes,
better to tighten your lips than bite.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-05 07:41
Can you offer more about what you are playing on? Mouthpieces, reeds, instruments, reed strengths. How long have you been playing? How much do you practice?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-07-05 17:11
Place an 'airy' reed on a good flat surface, like glass for instance.
1 Does it bounce up and down if you tap it on the middle, the beginning of the cut?
2 Does it rock back and forth using two fingers on the sides of the cut.
3 Look at the tip straight on. is it 'smiling at you?
Any of these problems can cause your problem.
Fix #1 by folding the tip back flat.
Fix #2 by wetting the reed thoroughly, maybe for an hour until it is flat.
Fix #3 by pulling the side edges back to flat.
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Author: AGH
Date: 2018-07-06 22:04
Hi all,
Thanks for all the great replies and support!
I currently play on a Vandoren BD5, strength 3.5 (though I do switch from 3 to 3.5+ depending on where I go). I try to practice as much as I can (ranging from 3-5 hours).
I try to break in my reeds over a 2-week period, with a few seconds only the first two days, then bumping it up to a minute or two the third day, slowing adding minutes. After three or so days, the reed gets airy which lasts to maybe day ten- at which point the reed would either play or wont.
However, I find that even softer reeds tend to be "airy" after a few days of break in. I'm not overplaying them, only following the process mentioned above.
I dry them bottom reed up, then placing it inside a reed case with a ziplock bag with a Boveda humidifier of 72.
I don't regularly get warped reeds, but when I do I sand the back down (but that makes it even airy'er...?)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-07-07 23:48
Gosh, that's a lot of practice!
How many years have you been playing?
I tend toward fairly closed mouthpieces (close to 1mm) and I use the equivalent of a strength #3 reed. When I heard about the Black Diamond I was interested until I found that the tip opening was more open than I would feel comfortable playing.
From my perspective, softer reeds (given the same mouthpiece) should progressively sound more "buzzy," "thinner," and eventually just close off. I never got an airy sound going down in strength. It is always going up too far.
One thought: If you live in a particularly dry climate (ie Arizona), you're reeds may be drying out within thirty seconds of slapping them on the mouthpiece. For situations where you have relative humidity issues (below 50%), I strongly suggest using Legere reeds of some form to preserve your sanity.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-07-08 05:13
Have you tried playing with a different mouthpiece? It could be that the mouthpiece has changed over time and it would be easy to check. Also, try putting the mouthpiece on a completely level surface such as a sheet of glass and checking if the table (the flat section) is flat.
Tony F.
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Author: AGH
Date: 2018-07-08 19:21
I just like clarinet (: so I practice alot. Been playing for around 8 years or so.
It could be the mouthpiece, but I feel like I get a much cleaner sound after a WHOLE day of playing, say in a band rehearsal or just playing alot. I thought maybe because I play alot louder in the band than in the practice room, so maybe that could be the source of a cleaner sound? Or maybe my abdomen/diaphragm warmed up.
I have been trying different mouthpieces, and initially my sound is cleaner and not-so-airy, but after maybe a day or two, the airy sound comes back (with the new mouthpiece). I'm certain that I'm not damaging the mouthpiece in anyway during the cleaning process, and I store my reeds in a air-tight bag w/ humidity control.
I find Legere reeds to be too flat and difficult to play. Even though it is consistent, I have to consistently bite to keep the sound supported (vs cane reed).
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Author: AGH
Date: 2018-07-08 19:25
Also, when I talk about airy, I'm not talking about spread-unfocused sound, but rather the airy sound you hear from jazz saxaphone players, though I assume those players have the airy sound on purpose. Im just trying to figure out how not to do it.
The airy sound I'm referring to is this (closest video of my issue I could find on youtube, just skip to the part where he plays in the low register, or where he plays that really nice jazz tune)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsrnrR-110g
Post Edited (2018-07-08 19:26)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-07-08 23:10
Dear AGH,
I guess we have not established if you've been playing for ten years and suddenly this issue has cropped up. Or, is this an issue that comes up at a certain time of year?
My worst experience with cane was a particularly cold winter in Boston. As you do, I keep reeds in a humid environment when stored in the case. However, once I placed the reed on the mouthpiece, it literally dried out in front of my eyes (maybe not even 30 seconds). The overly dry reed sounded brittle and yes, "airy."
If you use Legere, you should start with a strength 1/4 softer than what you use in cane. So if you use a 3.5 strength Vandoren, you should try a Legere (Classic cut) of 3.25. Personally I use German cut Legeres which are a whole half strength softer than what I use in a Vandoren V21 (German cut #2.5 = Vandoren V21 #3).
One easy way to check the strength issue is to back off your embouchure from its "ideal" spot, to a point closer to the tip. Also if applying more pressure (ahem, biting) gets rid of the airiness that may indicate the reed is a poor strength match for the combination of you, reed, and mouthpiece.
...........Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2018-07-08 23:12)
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Author: gatto
Date: 2018-07-08 23:25
Which reeds (brand, model) do you use?
I also play the BD5 and know that it has some tendency to sound airy under some circumstances. At the same time (when I started with the BD5) I deceided to use stronger reeds, 3.5 instead of 3.0. The airy sound only occured with (some) stronger reeds, in particular when new, and when my embourchure is tired or my diaphragm support too weak.
Since some months I am quite happy with Vandoren V21 3.5 reeds and hardly have a airy sound.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-07-09 02:52
It seems so clear that something is changing from one playing session to the next, especially (as you relate it) from the end of an extended session to the beginning of a new playing session a day later. You've said several times that you can get a clean sound but that often the next day you can't. What can be changing? Mouthpieces don't change overnight. Your approach (embouchure, blowing style, etc.) isn't going to change from day to day except if you're contorting things to try to solve the problem you've described. The instrument isn't changing.
The reed is changing. This isn't, actually, surprising or unexpected for most of us. As the reed goes through cycles of being wet and drying out, the vibrating characteristics of the cane change. There are any number of possible explanations - the fibers move; they swell when they fill with water and don't return to their original condition (making the reed thicker); as saliva evaporates, it leaves mineral deposits on the cane surface and, maybe, inside the fibers (making them less flexible); bacteria start to degrade the cane; etc.... Regardless of the actual physical changes that take place, reeds change as they are used.
Breaking reeds in seems, in the opinion of most players here on the BB, to minimize or slow the process. But the changes happen. The problem is with the reed, so the reed has to be addressed.
First of all, the ends of a reed's fibers tend to close (or fill up with minerals, depending on whose guess you accept) as it ages, so getting water into it takes longer. If a new reed is ready to go with a quick lick, a reed with a couple of weeks of playing time can take a minute or longer. Until the reed has absorbed enough water to make it flexible, it won't vibrate well - hence, air in the sound.
Second of all, most players deal with these changes in one of two ways: they toss the reed as it becomes unsatisfactory and start with a new one, or they learn to adjust the reed to compensate for the changes.
Nothing you've written so far makes me think that there's anything going on with your clarinet, and if you can get a good, clean sound on some days, there's no reason to think anything you're doing wrong technically is at fault.
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2018-07-09 08:01
I find that a reed plays “hard” when the back is swelled where it sits on the mouthpiece table. The swelling makes it act like it’s too hard, and it sounds “airy”. You can get a good tone if you work at it, but it seems hard to blow, and inflexible. I use a razor blade to gently scrape the back where it sits on the mouthpiece. Hold the blade perpendicular to the surface. It’s better than sandpaper because you can see exactly where material is being removed, and when the back is flat. (At first material only comes off at the center of the blade, and when you are done it cones off across the whole width of the reed.) You can control exactly where you scrape, so you aren’t affecting the strength of the reed. You can do the same thing with a reed knife or Reed Geek. When the back swells, I have to do this a couple days, and then it’s stable.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2018-07-09 09:24
From a slightly different viewpoint:
I've had a few odd pad/leak issues over the years which have caused an inconsistent "airy" sound.
Once, caused by a pad which was swelling when wet, and drying/shrinking/warping.
Once caused by a key being bumped or bent very slightly. (The pad's seat made it look like everything was still okay, and even thin plastic feelers gauges didn't indicate a problem. However, I changed the pad and everything worked perfectly again.)
In both cases, not only did the instrument have an "airy" sound to me, but it also felt much more resistant to play.
Another side note: In both instances, I initially thought the problem was my reed. For one of the instances, changing reeds did eventually bring me some relief when I found "just the right reed" (probably just a little softer than usual) - but as the reed changed, the problem returned. The pad change-out resolved the problem more permanently.
Fuzzy
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