 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-02 08:00
Hi all,
I've had this problem for a long time but it became very apparent while I was working on some of the long runs of Weber 2. I have no problem breathing when I am allowed to take my time to get a deep breath, such as the beginning of a piece or phrase. But if I need to sneak a breath in between a long run or passage, I have tested that I can only perhaps half as long before I have to stop for air. It is definitely a huge problem for me not just for Weber 2 but just clarinet playing in general.
It seems like I can't get a full breath when I take a quick one. When I have time to take a breath I fill stomach and lungs with air until I feel like I will explode, but I can't get that to happen when I try to speed up the process. It seems like I am able to fill up most of the lungs but maybe half of the stomach, if that makes sense.
Any help, suggestions, or exercises to improve my breathing techniques would be appreciated. Thanks so much!
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-07-02 08:52
Here's a very simple one - breathe out all your air and then hold your breath until it becomes a challenge to keep it up. Then relax and notice how your body naturally breathes quickly, fully, and DEEPLY when it really needs oxygen somewhat urgently.
Effective breathing is natural breathing - most people who have been around more than a decade or so tend to breath unnaturally - shallow and high in the body. Watch a baby breathe as it sleeps - this is your perfect masterclass.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-07-02 09:33
All the air should be in the lungs. The stomach should not contain air, it is not a part of the respiratory tract.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jthole
Date: 2018-07-02 12:49
Relaxation is the key here, and that is easier said than done.
I had a similar problem; building up stale air by taking quick breaths and not properly exhaling all the way. Incidentally, it also became blocking for me when working on Weber. For me, it was a mental problem more than a physical one, and it remains a weak spot for me.
What worked for me was not only marking spots where I could take a (quick) breath, but also spots where I should exhale. Sounds like an unnecessary thing, but it made me more aware of what I was doing.
As said, it remains a weak spot for me, especially when I feel pressured.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Speculator Sam
Date: 2018-07-02 16:59
I'd head you towards Lowenstern's video on the topic of breathing. Skip to 5:29 in the video if you only want to hear about the quick breathing technique. Essentially, learning how to take wholesome breathes into your tummy and not just with your chest, and then dropping your jaw when you do have to inhale and do so forcefully. Ditto on the above; I personally make it a point to always exhale everything out before inhaling to begin a phrase or to take a breath mid-piece. I hope this helps any.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2018-07-02 21:45
Have you considered that your set-up (or way of playing) may require far more air than should really be necessary? Filling "lungs with air until I feel like I will explode" isn't something that I need to do for normal clarinet playing. Perhaps learning to play with well-dosed amounts of air could be even more helpful than trying to over-fill your lungs?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-03 01:03
Asthma comes to mind. Have you been checked? Heart issues. I know you are very young.
Might be a really great time to learn the art of circular breathing? You are young so you might catch on fast. I remember an earlier post about a year ago with someone trying to play the opening solos to Capriccio Espagnol and having the same problem. I don't remember the final results, but surely a piece that shouldn't ever be a breathing problem.
You can try blowing into a balloon for a month or 2 everyday for a few minutes as warm-ups. Get the feel of lung capacity and the feel of grabbing air fast.
But get checked out by a doctor. Inhalers might correct the problem. Keep us posted, because I don't think this is right healthwise. I hope I'm wrong and you are in fine condition.
If everything checks out don't be opposed to running, biking, other forms of exercise. You will be going to college in a few months or less, so take advantage of the gyms.
Lastly I read a lot on the board here about players using very open mouthpieces. 1.13 to 1.20. I am against this. With the correct setup and a great facing 1.01 to 1.09 seems about right. The German players hardly ever go over 1.00, but as we all know there are exceptions. The great Eddie Daniels is only at 1.03. It also has to do with the mouthpiece itself. The deeper the baffle the less open you need. A general statement, just as German players often play softer reeds and some play harder reeds. I've been working with Michele Zukovsky lately and she is using Steuer 3 1/2 and 4 strength reeds, but some German players like 2 1/2 strengths. We have no issues hearing the German clarinet sections on mouthpieces inder 1 mm. The sound still projects. Same with American players that play with tip openings around 1.01 to 1.03mm's. They still fill the halls.
So Ray stay around a tip opening of 1.05 or less and a 3 1/2 strength reed for now. Maybe a 3, depending on the brand. Work with a balloon and get checked out by a doctor.
A friend got into an Air Force band, but during Basic Training he was running and fainted. Well the Air Force only makes you run 2 1/2 miles, or you can actually walk part of it in 20 minutes. The poor guy was kicked out on a medical discharge. Sadly there wasn't anything wrong with him. Just wasn't good at running so he should have walked and run. My point is everyone is built differently. He should be in a military band right now. Maybe it was a really hot day. Don't know. His brother made it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-03 06:23
Hi all, thanks for all the fast responses! Yes I do have asthma, and last time I spoke to my doctor about it, he had me blow into a device and it would move a plastic object along the side of the device. I could only get about half as far as the doctor could. So maybe asthma is the problem, but I don't want to stop there, because I like playing clarinet and I don't want anything to stop me from doing so.
I have never really tried more closed tip mouthpieces so maybe if I am able to get my hands on one, it will help me. I currently play on a mouthpiece made by Bob Bernardo. I think the tip opening is 1.13. I also play on Legeres, strength 4.25. I know that sounds like a very hard setup but I started playing clarinet using a B45 and eventually used V12 #3.5 reeds on it. But maybe I do need to find a lighter setup. I did try a few Legere #3.5 a few days ago but I just can't get used to it. My sound becomes way too bright in a bad way, and I just don't like it.
I didn't really mean breathing from the stomach, but isn't it true that your stomach expands when you try to take a deep breath? Even if the air only reaches your diaphragm? My teacher told me that I should not be afraid to expand my stomach rapidly, and he told me I just need to breathe in more rapidly and a bit more "violently." As a bass clarinet player in a big orchestra, he told me at times he would breathe so violently that it would hurt.
I'll take a look at the Lowenstern video and work on some of the breathing exercises, since I don't know if I can drastically change my setup. I'm just so used to playing on a resistant setup since I've always played on a very open mouthpiece.
Thanks!
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-03 08:08
Well Ray I don't remember making that open of a mouthpiece for you, unless it was requested to match the Vandoren RD model. I try to discourage anything over 1.09.
Good news or bad news whatever way you look at it, is Harold Wright had asthma and played on a tip opening of 1.01. A Chedeville. Maybe we should study this approach. We surely can try a 1.03 to 1.04 with your Legere 4 plus strength reed.
Maybe ask your teacher once you get settled in school. Send me your address and I'll get a closer facing out to you.
Steve Barta studied with Wright and Marcellus and taught at Peabody and made the comment to me that Gennusa at Peabody had the best sound by far. He was using about a 1.02. I should know as I made the first 6 mouthpieces for him. Sadly he went on his own thinking he could make a better mouthpiece but never was able. The secret was in the baffle/chamber and I never gave him the measurements.
An interesting story, Wright, Marcellus, Barta, and Gennusa all played with a double lip, but Steve Barta and Bob Marcellus went back to single lip playing. Steve does play some pieces with a double lip. I kind of like this move, because there is a sound difference with some players.
Back to my comments above. Try a balloon and also a closer facing, I see no reason why you would ever need to give up playing. Just make some changes. This may include different horns at one point, but consider a mouthpiece change and maybe a barrel change for now. Maybe even go to cane reeds for a short time. College is the place for discovery and fine tuning your skills.
Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-06 08:33
Bought a pack of 20 12-inch balloons and been blowing on two of them for a few days when I get the chance. I am having no trouble blowing it to past 12-inch diameter with normal breathing. With fast breaths, I notice I have to take a few more breaths to get the same diameter. Maybe it's asthma, but I am not gonna blame it on that yet. I'll keep working on it to see if I can get more air in on a fast breath in.
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-06 09:26
Wow Ray good for you. Keep up with it for several months and see and I bet you will see a huge difference.
I didn't say anything. But I will now. Due to the pesticides on all of the Rico reeds I have asthma now and on July 18th there will be a hearing, possible settlement offer against Rico. I don't expect a settlement offer that day. But I will demand a trial date at the end of this hearing to start within 2 months. They are already paying for my medical bills so the only thing left is to figure out a settlement amount of employment. I can't give out these figures yet, but it's a lot.
Long story short, stay with the balloons; asthma sometimes goes away, so think of this as part of an exercise everyday and your breathing WILL get a lot better while playing. This I can promise as I'm doing these myself. You might beat it, just with balloons! Kind of cool.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-07-06 09:35
I'm also an asthmatic, although not severely so. I sometimes find myself running out of air. When this happens I do a breath-holding exercise that I learned years ago when I did a lot of diving. I mostly do it while driving. I just take a full breath and hold it until I start to get uncomfortable and then hold it a bit longer. Not until you go blue, just to the edge of your comfort level. Over the course of a week or so I can improve my time by perhaps 30%, and this is reflected in my playing. It works for me, your mileage may vary.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-07-06 23:04
Thanks for the advice Tony, I will definitely try it out.
Glad I never played on Rico reeds, I really didn't know they were that bad! Our middle school director actually recommends Rico: I hope our clarinets and saxes won't all get all sorts of side effects!
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
