 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-16 03:43
All-State audition this year calls for excerpts from the Mozart clarinet concerto and some tongued scales.
What are some tips or things I should focus on that will help me stand out from the other hundreds of applicants?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2018-06-16 07:12
Ken Lagace wrote:
> Listen to some Harold Wright Anton Stadler recordings.
...GBK ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-16 07:31
Work out the technical passages slowly and thoroughly now.
Don't play them any faster than you can maintain perfect timing with consistency of tone, smoothness, and volume. This might be at half tempo or even slower. Also be cognizant of intonation, especially in selecting fingerings for the altissimo arpeggios in the second excerpt. Slowly take each passage up notch by notch with the metronome using uneven rhythms and intervalic work as needed. This will prepare you to really make music with them later as the auditions approach. Don't hack away at full tempo now or burn yourself out on it. It's still early. Now is the time for laying a foundation.
This is what the students in my studio, who will be some of your competition, are doing now (or at least that's what I've assigned them!). It's just one small part of the summer curriculum. Well actually some of them have to play this audition in August to try to make the top band at their school, so that particular group are doing the same thing, but more intensively as the process is compressed in their case. Hope that helps.
Anders
Post Edited (2018-06-16 07:32)
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-16 08:46
I guess a better way to phrase my question would be if you were a judge, what would be the some keys things to listen for when listening at a recording of scales and Mozart?
Thanks Nellsonic for the advise, I have a couple of classmates that are in the same shoes. Just wondering, do you happen to be in Southern California?
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2018-06-16 08:48
Agree with everything nellsonic says.
Another method for technical passages is "Beat to Beat". Like it sounds, you have groups of sixteenth notes. Play the first 4 and end on the 5th. Then play 6 and end on 7th, then 8 and land on 9th.
One thing I do with the 3rd Mvmt. of the Concerto is tongue all notes on the "down & up" scale pattern near the start (7th/8th bar?) & throughout. As opposed to slurring it all or "2 and 2". I believe Mozart didn't write in much in the way of articulations himself.
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-16 09:19
I am required to use the Bellison edition which slurs the first three notes and has staccato for the last two. Thankfully, it's not part of the repertoire but I want to learn the whole concerto before high school.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-16 11:43
GenEric, yes - northern San Diego County. You are more in the central coast area if I remember correctly from previous posts? Beautiful area. I spent a few days in Ojai, Ventura, and Carpenteria last week.
To answer your revised question, Mozart will tell a judge almost everything they need to know about you as a player within seconds. Can you play with beautiful tone that is well controlled and yet exciting throughout a range of dynamics? Do you do what it takes to understand and conform to the stylistic norms of the period of the piece? Can you articulate cleanly and consistently, both legato and staccato? Do you play with accurate rhythm and an appropriate steady tempo? Are you as careful about how notes end as how they begin? Are you in tune? Can you do all this and also shape a phrase beautifully and with distinction? Do your fingers move accurately and smoothly?
I was a judge for the All Southern middle school sax auditions a number of years ago. I believe we took 10 altos. The top 2 or 3 stood out but the next 15 were also very polished and close in ability. The difference between being in the middle of the section and not making it all was very small. Any of those 15 would have done great but half of them missed out. On another day it might have gone their way. Since then it's only gotten more competitive and I am often surprised by how my students end up ranking in relation to each other. Auditions are only a snapshot of a particular day through a particular lens. So often sight-reading is the determining factor in live auditions like All-Southern.
You do your best and move on, gaining invaluable experience along the way and hopefully getting to play in great groups at least some of the time. The most successful in this are usually the ones who study with a good teacher, make the most of their practice time each week, and keep taking auditions no matter what. Just a bit of perspective in case it helps. Starting early is always a great idea, so kudos to you for being on it and seeking answers.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2018-06-16 12:44
GenEric said:
> I am required to use the Bellison edition which slurs the
> first three notes and has staccato for the last two.
The 1943 Carl Fischer/Bellison edition of the Mozart Concerto is one of the worst (if not the worst) edition available. It certainly is the cheapest - and I suppose you get what you pay for.
There are numerous questionable notes and trills(!), the articulation is highly inconsistant, awkward and an annoyance to fix, the dynamic markings are often surprising (to say the least), and with recent attempts to reconstruct the basset clarinet version this edition is badly outdated.
The biggest gaffe - The use of the term "cadenza."
Put that edition out with yesterday's trash, where it belongs.
...GBK
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-16 17:54
Unfortunately, it's probably the edition that has been required since the audition was established. Pennsylvania MEA has required the Kell edition, which is nearly as flawed, for as long as I can remember.
The organizations in their infinite musical wisdom find it absolutely necessary to require students to perform from exactly the same script - all articulations, expression markings, notes and rhythms identical so that the judges' comparisons are "apples-to-apples." Hence the requirement of a specific edition, which must be an inexpensive one.
The result is that the students learn the pieces (my other pet gripe in Pennsylvania has been the required edition of the Weber Concertino) from an outdated edition complete with the editor's idiosyncratic articulations, Romantic crescendos and diminuendos that the composer didn't provide, metronome markings that are often questionable and outright errors that teachers correct at the students' peril when they play the corrections at the audition. Part of the problem is that the judges may not be players of the instrument they're hearing and can't be expected to know all the issues surrounding the Bellison edition of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto (or the Kell). The other part is that "fairness" is prioritized over the learning experience - judges can't be trusted to judge a player's *ability* to articulate cleanly or give music appropriate expressive quality, so they must instead be limited to judging the student's *accuracy* in reading the printed script. What better way to promote a mindless literalism toward what should be living, breathing music?!
Karl
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-06-16 21:43
GenEric, this is for CBDA/CODA right? I think the Mozart was the audition piece for my freshman year. Before I share my tips on how I approached the Mozart, I just wanted to remind you to check the Errata on the CBDA website: there are several errors in the 2nd movement excerpts. I did not realize there was an errata section until after I submitted my recordings, which may be a reason why I ended up almost last chair in the second band. But it could have been also because I was only a freshman and I just wasn't that good LOL
As others have mentioned, the edition required by CBDA (Bellison/Carl Fischer) is pretty bad. This is nothing new, as the Weber for last year was probably even worse (Rubank edition). I disagreed with a lot of the articulations, dynamics, etc in both of them. Despite that, however, I played exactly how it was written -- all the marked dynamics, articulations, trills, and unfortunately, all the wrong notes since I did not see the Errata on the CBDA website. The judges will definitely pay close attention to how well you play the music as written. But be sure to play expressively as well...out of the 4 pieces in the CBDA cycle, Mozart might be the least technical demanding, so that means in theory, more people will be able to play it "correctly." If you play with passion, it will really make you stand out. I know for a fact that I messed up a ton when I auditioned as a freshman, but I played exactly what was written as well as adding my own dynamics/expressiveness when there isn't anything marked at a section.
Best of luck!
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-16 22:43
Well, sure it's a medicore edition, but so what? It's an audition for a spot in a large ensemble - not a recital, ratings festival, or concerto competition. These are excerpts, and just like orchestral excerpts for orchestra auditions large and small they are a demonstration of suitability for a potential gig, not the end-all and be-all of individualistic expression. None of this is prohibitive of making good music. Those that place high in these auditions will jump through all the hoops with precision and still manage to stand out from the crowd by being musical. No long-term student in my studio has this as their only experience performing the Mozart.
No one is obligated to play wrong notes. I've made several contributions to the errata notice over the years. The powers that be take notice. No judge wants to sit there and hear the same wrong note all day.
While we all can and probably do lament certain things about the process along the way I think we can at least appreciate that it is relatively equitable and that the majority of students will benefit from the experience.
Perhaps I'm more forgiving of the flaws of this edition because the most egregious of them do not appear in the specified excerpts and it's actually a great edition compared to the dreadful Weber Concertino one that precedes it in the cycle. Probably also because, yes, it's the same one I had to audition with decades ago! 
Anders
Post Edited (2018-06-16 22:48)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-06-22 02:00
With Mozart he didn't put any slurs or tonguing marks to my knowledge in the concerto which was actually written for a friend of his. The quintet as well as the concerto.
So the first the notes being slurred in my opinion is very wrong. I can't give you a lesson here but there are a lot of very nice recordings. One of them is often said to be the very best is with Robert Marcellus and the Cleveland Orchestra, with George Szell conducting. It's one of the very first really great recordings. Another is with David Shifrin who played this piece as written by Mozart with the extended horn. Now there are 100's of recordings.
Get into Mozart's head/brain, and don't play endless meaningless notes without no meaning to them. He wrote with deep feelings. Play the music this way. If you can't articulate fast enough slur or play slower. Play the hard passages with grace and no stumbles. To achieve this gracefulness use a metronome is start slowly and work your way up to speed and past the required speed.
Best of luck. Feel free is emailing me recordings and I will be happy to give you advice. I've performed this live about 30 times and I actually hate playing it. There are so many other wonderful pieces not played.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-06-22 02:02)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2018-06-22 15:07
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> With Mozart he didn't put any slurs or tonguing marks to my
> knowledge in the concerto which was actually written for a
> friend of his. The quintet as well as the concerto.
>
> So the first the notes being slurred in my opinion is very
> wrong.
Perhaps you might want to do some research as your statement is equally very wrong.
Start here: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rb5h-ngc/e/k621b.htm
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-06-22 17:48
Peter, the document you link is interesting and informative, though perhaps translated with difficulty. I don't see that it contradicts Bob's statement that you quote. Unless I misread, it doesn't contain any obvious reference to articulation.
I don't understand the part referring to Bars 17 and 19 having been altered (by Mozart) from "sharped melody" to "smoothed melody line" - is that what you meant? I don't have a copy of K. 621b. And the editions I have of K. 622 might obscure the topic more than enlighten it.
Apart from that, the document seems to support that the concerto & quintet were probably written for Mozart's friend Stadler.
Is it not so that most of the articulation choices (and ornamentation choices) in the concerto were not notated by Mozart, but have been made by performers and/or publishers, with that being the intent and practice at the time of composition?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-22 22:49
Philip Caron wrote:
> Is it not so that most of the articulation choices (and
> ornamentation choices) in the concerto were not notated by
> Mozart, but have been made by performers and/or publishers,
> with that being the intent and practice at the time of
> composition?
Keep in mind when debating what articulations are most in character for Mozart's time or his style in other compositions, the OP is required to play what Bellison provided in his edition regardless of it's historical appropriateness. Likewise, whatever you think of Marcellus's recording, the OP can't model on that except where Marcellus's performance and Bellison's published notation agree.
It's interesting to know that CBDA provides an errata list (PMEA doesn't, afaik). Obviously, then, it's important to check that because playing the original error instead of a sanctioned correction will hurt you competitively. As for expressive devices, including articulations, dynamic changes and tempo changes, you're better off learning the ones Bellison sets out for this audition and then exploring other options later.
Karl
Post Edited (2018-06-22 23:16)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-22 23:15
Speaking of Bellison's edition (and Kell's too, for that matter)…
There is the well-known passage at the end of the concerto (bars 311-313) where most 20th century editions show the passage in the throat register crossing back and forth over the break. All of the recordings I ever heard (including the Marcellus recording, as I remember) were played this way until soloists started to reintroduce the basset-clarinet versions on extended instruments. Bellison's version, which is both easier and closer to what is now accepted as the original, is written an octave lower. Except that the low C3 is replaced with an F so the line (not counting the Cs in between) goes A-G-F-E-F-G.... Kell didn't commit quite so firmly - he wrote the passage in the throat register (including low C4 in the middle) and put an "octave lower" sign under it.
Bellison's version places an F (concert Eb for Bb clarinet) where the low C belongs. It doesn't fit the harmony, which on that note is a Bb tonic chord in the transposed accompaniment (A in the original). Kell's version is, of course, impossible on a standard clarinet if taken literally, so if the student plays it an octave lower as Kell asks, he has to find a substitute for the low C.
2 related questions: when you teach a student who is required to play the Bellison (or Kell) version for a competitive audition, what do you teach them to play here? For those of you who have actually performed this concerto (or at least the Rondo movement) on a non-extended standard Boehm clarinet, do you play the formerly standard over-the-break throat register version, or do you play the lower chalumeau version and solve the low C problem in some other way?
Karl
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-06-22 23:47
It is really disappointing that some auditions require a specific edition, particularly a bad edition. For Mozart concerto, this is even more problematic because most editions based on the original "adapted" version for standard clarinet contain so many musically speaking unnatural passages.
I would strongly the clarinet community to check out the edition by Sabine Meyer and her husband from Schott. In this edition, all the so called basset passages were adapted with consideration of the music context. Moreover, this edition contains all articulation and dynamic suggestions. Nevertheless, eventually, it is important, I believe, to play the whole piece by heart.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-23 00:18
I simply cannot believe that All-State audition panels (whatever they are, I'm ignorant) distinguish between competitors on the basis of the sorts of trivial considerations of editorial detail discussed in this thread.
Do you have any evidence that they do? Do you know any panellists to consult?
The quality of a player in my musical world is to be assessed quite differently. It's unfortunate (or, perhaps fortunate) that it's impossible to characterise that assessment in detail.
Tony
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-23 01:06
I think it would be safest to play the piece as accurately to the requested edition as possible. I would like to hear your input on tempo though. The edition says "Allegro moderato (quarter = 104). Since the explicit tempo is in parenthesis, would it be okay to play it at the much more common 126 tempo? Honestly, the 104 tempo is way to slow.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-06-23 02:46
Hi GenEric, when I auditioned a few years back, I played it faster than written. You should play all the articulations as written: I know they are horrible and they shouldn't do this, but hey you are playing their game, so you gotta play by their rules. Unfortunately.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2018-06-23 02:59
Philip, get a copy of the Henle Urtext and take a look in the appendices. There is a typeset version of the Winterthur Manuscript which clearly shows the articulation. Bob might also invest in a copy. The text in this edition is quite scholarly. Colin Lawson’s Cambridge Guide to K.622 is also worth investing in.
Peter Cigleris
Post Edited (2018-06-23 03:00)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-23 03:00
>> You should play all the articulations as written: I know they are horrible and they shouldn't do this, but hey you are playing their game, so you gotta play by their rules. Unfortunately.>>
Yeah? Evidence?
Tony
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-06-23 06:19
Something to know about and research before saying I'm wrong! Do your homework please. So, as far as I know from my research I am correct. But it doesn't matter, There is no way to prove it so let's drop it. But you can study other works and see that he did not use a lot of slurs and articulation marks when writing most of his music, often none at all. I've actually looked around for years but it seems that Mozart's wife destroyed a lot of his works, and actually part of this concerto, although somewhere part of it has survived. Where? No one knows. I stand behind my statement that the first 3 notes shouldn't be slurred. We now rely on people to translate his works, and some of the translations are horrible.
So play the piece as if you were in the head of Mozart himself. I said this statement for a reason. Cheers! Bob
"The Clarinet Concerto in A, K622, completed in 1791, the year of Mozart's death, marked his ... The whereabouts of the original manuscript are unknown."
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-06-23 06:40)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-06-23 07:02
I found the Henle Urtext edition on Amazon, used, for $713.52 plus shipping. After the windows had stopped reverberating from the shrieks, I found it elsewhere for $28.76. I believe I will order; though my chances of ever performing it are zero, the music and the composer deserve the effort.
Tailing into another sub-thread, I learned and somewhat imprinted on the standard clarinet version, with the "crossing the break" way of playing the passage in the Rondo finale that Karl mentioned. The Marcellus recording inspired me to work on crossing the break so I could play those bars "as good as Marcellus". It's been years now, and I cross the break in general pretty well, but I'm no Marcellus. :-) Btw, besides being a beautiful example of clarinet playing, that recording is a fine example of George Szell's conducting of late Mozart.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-06-23 07:49
Great Philip! It's cool to hear something nice like this. Studied with him and Gennusa, both recorded the piece, but the Marcellus recording is just so great. Gennusa used a different version and I don't like how he play the ending of the first movement.
The first movement according to Marcellus was taken at the speed of 112. However, Szell does put "Feeling," into the piece so the tempo changes ever so slightly, slowing down, then picking up the tempo again, and a pause stuck in there. It is however played at 112 according to Bob Marcellus. I think 126 as mentioned above is kicking it a bit fast, but a great practice tempo. 104 is a shade slow, but easier to nail the articulated passes and play smoothly. So these are words from Marcellus himself, regarding what the tempo he and Szell chose; most likely it was Szell.
Try to find the Shifrin recording now. Or write to him at Yale. It's as close to what Mozart wanted I feel. He used an extended clarinet made special for him, by a friend name Lenny who has since passed away. Kind of an amazing job. It was a Selmer clarinet with an extended lower joint and added keys.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-06-23 08:11)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2018-06-23 10:00
Happy to be proven wrong Bob. Please provide evidence to your statement and I’ll reconsider my position. Otherwise my assertion stands.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-23 18:22
Tony Pay wrote:
> I simply cannot believe that All-State audition panels
> (whatever they are, I'm ignorant) distinguish between
> competitors on the basis of the sorts of trivial considerations
> of editorial detail discussed in this thread.
>
> Do you have any evidence that they do? Do you know any
> panellists to consult?
>
Actually, yes - I've been on many of those panels. And, to be honest, I don't use adherence to the printed edition as a criterion, so long as the articulation is clean and well controlled and the crescendos and diminuendos aren't bizarre. Good playing is good playing. But the organizations' rule is that students must play what's in the prescribed edition. Whether or not or how stringently an individual judge follows the rule is not under the student's control. (Nor, of course, is it really under the organization's control - it ends up an individual judge's decision.)
Karl
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-23 20:10
Thank you, Karl. I'm sure that there are judges who adopt a similarly fair-minded approach to the matter.
As you already know, Mozart's written texts are quite 'thinly' notated, in the sense that many of the details – including the NOTES, in some circumstances – are left to performers' understanding of the style. (That's true also of notated jazz in our own time.) Therefore some degree of latitude might be argued to be implicit, and that 'understanding of the style' is part of what is being judged.
Beyond that: my own reason for entering this thread is that I think it's a mistake to assume from the outset that panellists are LOOKING to nitpick in the ways described in the thread above. It's a common theme here, and one that does damage to young performers.
The matter may be different in different types of music. (In the Stravinsky Three Pieces, for instance, the composer is at pains to insist explicitly that his notation is 'thick'.)
Tony
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-06-24 00:07
Yes Tony you are correct. Even the cadenza in the second movement of this Concerto is completely left out. People just don't believe me, but that's OK Tony. Don't care! If Mozart leaves out notes completely why bother to put in slurs and articulation marks! Mozart didn't want to bother! He wrote for his own pro orchestra.
Mozart lets the players decide what to do with it. Some players often use the the Quintet as the cadenza, which surely fits well in the Concerto and you can't go wrong. This is what Marcellus did.
So people should read more about this great composer. Play other works such as violin music for sight reading and you'd be surprised how little if any markings there are. Then have more confidence when stating when I'm wrong. Sure I can be wrong. After all most or part of THIS concerto has been destroyed and who knows where it is located. Until then we must believe he didn't use much in expressing slurs and articulation. He died young and wrote about 650 pieces. Added there are probably around 650 different translations of this 1 Concerto. Marcellus was firm about which translation his students used. It surely wasn't the Bellison edition. So let's all agree that Mozart wrote with very few guidelines and mainly wrote the scores with notes in mind and nothing else. Let's assume we both are wrong. Because I don't care!
Here's another interesting fact if anyone wishes to research this and learn more. Mozart really never erased any of his music. Meaning that once the piece was completed that was it. So many others, such as Bach and pre Bach during Counterpoint composing. Once the notes were on paper nothing changed. But we have these dam people who transcribed the pieces according to what they thought the composers wanted. Most of them failed. Including Bellison with this Concerto. Regardless of how bad it is we have pencils to fix the errors. So it's a moot point in my mind. We have the liberties to play the piece any way we wish.
But this major breakthrough in this form of writing then erasing was actually Beethoven. Maybe not the first composer, but surely one of the first major masters. Now Beethoven made sure every note, every slur, every accent, was what he wanted. He rewrote so much. For example the 9th Sym was written without the choir but then added as a last thought, to complete this last amazing work. Also a lot of his works were started early on but not completed in order. He'd put pieces aside and finish them later. For example his 6th sym was started early on but it took awhile to finish it. Same with the 9th. Don't believe me? Go look it up. Go study Mozart too as well as Bach. It's called Music History. You can take it at your better conservatories and well worth your time. Also, Form and Analysis. Then you really begin to see what is behind the minds of these great composers. Surely a favorite 2 years worth of classes - Form and Analysis. Sadly a lot of schools don't offer this.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-06-24 00:30)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2018-06-24 00:30
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Even the cadenza in the second
> movement of this Concerto is completely left out
> Go study Mozart too as well as Bach.
> It's called Music History.
The Mozart Concerto does not have a cadenza...never had, never will...
It does, however, have areas where an eingang can be played.
Take your music history book and look up the difference between a cadenza and an eingang.
If you get stuck, let me know.
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-06-24 00:40
You may be correct. But the musical word difination eingang means "Beginning". I can surely live with that. I'm referring just to the second movement where the clarinet has a Bb and the orchestra stops. Then the clarinetist is free to do whatever he/she feels fit to do with notes. So if this is what you are referring to you are correct. It was always called a cadenza when referred to this by fellow musicians. Thanks! Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-06-24 00:59)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-24 02:12
Mozart writes quite a few phrase-marks, which are important for an understanding of his music. They have a deeper meaning than articulation marks, even though they look just like them!
See Phrasing in Contention on this website for a comprehensive discussion.
(Don't stop posting, Bob; we all learn so much.)
Tony
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Author: GBK
Date: 2018-06-24 02:59
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> But the musical word difination eingang means "Beginning".
> I can surely live with that. I'm referring just to the second
> movement where the clarinet has a Bb and the orchestra stops.
> Then the clarinetist is free to do whatever he/she feels fit to do
> with notes. So if this is what you are referring to you are correct.
> It was always called a cadenza when referred to this by fellow musicians.
Bob,
There are always a few "clues" to help the listener (and performer) determine the difference between an eingang and a cadenza.
The first hint should be that an eingang begins after a dominant seventh chord (a cadenza begins after a tonic chord in 2nd inversion), and the instrument that is to play the melody after the eingang is the same instrument that is to play the eingang. (After a cadenza - it is the accompaniment which almost always plays next)
Secondly, an eingang usually ends a half step before the beginning of the next section of melody. Thus the dominant seventh reference.
Lastly, eingang (even though usually improvised on the spot) are rather brief, usually about 15 seconds. Cadenzas, on the other hand, are much longer in time, and can last several minutes
...GBK
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-06-25 20:16
Hi Tony, sorry for not seeing your question earlier. I always played it how it's written for my All State Auditions because I assumed that that's probably the reason why the California Band Director's Association (CBDA) is so picky on which edition you use. I admit this may be a faulty assumption. But our County honor band uses the All State music for its audition, and they do tell you to play exactly as written. My band director volunteered as a judge for the County Honor Band Auditions (for flute even though he's a trumpet player) and he tells us how much he pays attention to people observing the articulations and dynamics. But my assumption for the All State Audition may be wrong.
My band director also decided to attend a conference hosted by the California Band Director's Association (CBDA) regarding tips for auditions this February. He came back saying that it is essential to follow what's written on the page.
I am no expert myself, and I definitely do not agree with the ideas of the CBDA. I just wanted to share what I know. I'm just a messenger
-- Ray Zhang
Post Edited (2018-06-25 20:17)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-25 21:24
Yes; I've now educated myself a bit more about all of this. It was implicit in Nellsonic's post, but I didn't read that carefully enough, I'm afraid.
It seems that Mozartean style is very much in the background, and that it's mainly a question of establishing competence, together with good sound and intonation.
Can you point me to where I can find details of the relevant short extracts; or better, post a snapshot of them? They seem quite resistant to the search engine.
Tony
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-25 23:14
Tony Pay wrote:
> Can you point me to where I can find details of the relevant
> short extracts; or better, post a snapshot of them? They seem
> quite resistant to the search engine.
>
Tony, which extracts are you asking about? In PA (and in my local Bucks County MEA, which uses the same solo list) the excerpts are chosen on-the-fly the day of the audition.
Karl
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-26 02:27
So, I'm further confused. That means, does it, that you have to prepare the whole Mozart concerto in the Bellison edition? Or has some degree of selection already taken place?
When the original poster talks about "the Bellison edition which slurs the first three notes and has staccato for the last two," is he talking about the beginning of the first movement? (The opening of the Rondo seems to fall more plausibly under that description.)
Tony
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-26 05:52
I play 2 passages from each movement.
I stand corrected for my previous statement. I was referring to a different part of the movement. Here is a photo to clear things up.
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-26 05:52
I play 2 passages from each movement.
I stand corrected for my previous statement. I was referring to a different part of the movement. Here is a photo to clear things up.
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-06-26 05:52
Attachment: mozart.png (133k)
I play 2 passages from each movement.
I stand corrected for my previous statement. I was referring to a different part of the movement. Here is a photo to clear things up.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-26 07:02
For Penna MEA and Bucks County MEA, the two organizations I've been involved with, the students are responsible for learning the entire Rondo. The County requirement stops at bar 311 - deliberately to avoid the whole issue of which octave to play the passage I mentioned earlier (we're using the Kell edition which has the passage in the throat register over the break with an "8ve lower" marking under it, including the C4). The state requires that students learn the entire movement including the full coda.
The judges typically choose 3 or four staves on the day of the audition.
I'm only reporting now, not defending.
Karl
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-06-27 02:18
There seems to be a disconnect between auditioning for XYZ "All Region HS Band" and auditioning for a professional symphony. Albeit the edition in question sucks. Most of kids auditioning will probably barely play the right notes and rhythms accurately, much less any articulation. Forget about any dynamic. I'd love to judge young players and would be thrilled to get the opportunity to consider musical interpretation. I'm usually too busy figuring who was worse - the person that missed the key signature or the person that can't play any dotted rhythms. That's the reality.
So I submit, the student play the edition as indicated, less any erratas. They aren't married to this edition, it's just a simple audition. If I heard a student ignore the articulations (whether I agree or not) on the page, then I'd assume they can't follow simple instructions. (I know that sounds cold, but you have 30 seconds to decide on a player. Then the next one starts playing.)
Suck it up and play the edition presented. When you're the next Frost, play whatever you feel suits the piece. And good for you doing so.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-27 10:07
Robert makes the point I attempted to pages ago.
I would NOT play the first movement at 104 unless you can't play it cleanly faster. Play at tempos that are well within contemporary performance practice. Other than the metronome markings, play the ink and make it sound good despite all that is wrong with it, the process, and the world in general. If you can do this you will place high.
This is assuming you play the scales perfectly and, if you are also auditioning for All-Southern, can SIGHT-READ WELL. Sight-reading counts much more than most students seem to think it would. If you can't sight-read well you almost certainly won't make it into All-Southern no matter how well you play the solo. I've seen this happen many times.
Now is the time to start working on sight-reading daily if it's not a strength and a few times a week if it is. It's something you should be doing anyway.
Anders
Post Edited (2018-06-27 10:59)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-06-27 16:42
The one further thing that I would say is: thinking that you are trying to STAND OUT from other applicants can be an unhelpful way of representing the matter to yourself, at any level. It's especially true of this piece – which is one reason why I argue against the Mozart as a choice for the eliminator round of any audition procedure.
The more you practise the technical components of your extract, the more you will demonstrate your competence, as has been pointed out; and the more you immerse yourself in your understanding of the music, the more you will be likely to demonstrate what we call your musicality.
Analogously, if you wanted to demonstrate your mastery of the English language – your 'Englishality', say – no number of 'tips or things to focus on' would help you. To speak English 'Englishly' you have to have both a feeling for the structure of the language and an understanding of the meanings of the words you use. You can develop that, but it takes time. The same is true of 'musicality'.
The extract you posted seems to me to be pretty good editorially. A thing you might ask yourself about it is: which of the bars of the Rondo are best thought of as being 'in one' and which are best thought of as being 'in two'? That sort of variety is a very common expressive device in Mozart.
Looking at the accompaniment might help.
So, don't try to 'stand out'. Try to do your best by your pal Mozart:-)
Tony
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The Clarinet Pages
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