 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jsantos1
Date: 2018-05-15 18:58
Hey everyone!
So I just bought my clarinet last week from a person who bought it 2 years ago and didn't like the instrument. I'm practising a little bit everyday, but unfortunately I couldn't manage to find a teacher in my area, so for now I'm trying to practice mindfully and learn from reddit/youtube.
So the clarinet I bought came with a stock mouthpiece and a Vandoren no. 1 reed (which I guess is 2 years old and as far as I can tell, the person scrapped the reed to make it even thinner) and I could play some notes with a terrible tone. I went to my music shop and bought a Vandoren no. 3, no. 2 and no. 1,5 and couldn't get any sound of them. Yesterday I was trying again the new reeds I bought and I realized I just wasn't blowing hard enough; because the crappy reed was so thin, I got used to put little air to make it vibrate. However, we I did got a sound from the no. 1,5 and the no. 2, it was very airy. Here is a recording I just did 30 minutes ago (https://soundcloud.com/joao-pedro-743947157/sets/clarinet)
What is possible causing this airy sound? A poor embochure? A poor air support? Maybe is it because I'm not used to these new reeds? As for the stock mouthpiece, I already got a Clark Fobes Debut (which is probably gonna be in my hands tomorrow). Since I'm playing with a harder reed, I found that I'm making a firmer embochure and my muscles are getting tired, is this normal? I also noticed is very very hard to articulate and when I manage to do so without stopping the reed vibration, the articulation gets also airy.
Thank you everyone in advance!
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-05-15 19:48
If you bought a clarinet that had a mouthpiece that needed a #1 reed scraped down, I would blame the mouthpiece. Check back here after you try the Fobes Debut. Your troubles may have been solved.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2018-05-15 20:23
look into at least a few private lessons online so someone can diagnose the issues you are having. Just do a google search for online clarinet lessons.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-05-15 20:31
There's a lot to unpack here.
First off, I tried to listen to your recorded track and couldn't get it to play. So I'll try to work just from your post.
First question just for some context: do you play another instrument and are starting only now on the clarinet, or is the clarinet your first attempt at learning an instrument?
> but unfortunately I couldn't manage to
> find a teacher in my area, so for now I'm trying to practice
> mindfully and learn from reddit/youtube.
Is the owner of the music shop where you're buying reeds not able to help? If not, doesn't he know someone local who plays clarinet and could help you get started? Doesn't need to be a fantastic clarinetist or even an experienced teacher at the beginning, but just someone who plays enough clarinet to know how to produce a characteristic tone.
>
> So the clarinet I bought came with a stock mouthpiece and a
> Vandoren no. 1 reed (which I guess is 2 years old and as far as
Except for very specialized mouthpieces not often supplied as stock, a #1 reed is generally useless, as you seem to have discovered.
> I
> went to my music shop and bought a Vandoren no. 3, no. 2 and
> no. 1,5 and couldn't get any sound of them.
You're using the stock mouthpiece, but have you checked on its condition? In particular, the rails (the thin areas alongside and around the top of the window) can't be distorted - chipped, abraded, twisted-looking. If they are, no reed will work well.
> Yesterday I was
> trying again the new reeds I bought and I realized I just
> wasn't blowing hard enough; because the crappy reed was so
> thin, I got used to put little air to make it vibrate. However,
> we I did got a sound from the no. 1,5 and the no. 2, it was
> very airy. Here is a recording I just did 30 minutes ago
> (https://soundcloud.com/joao-pedro-743947157/sets/clarinet)
>
Here is a hyperlink version of your Soundcloud page: https://soundcloud.com/joao-pedro-743947157/sets/clarinet if others want to try it. I couldn't get it to play.
> What is possible causing this airy sound? A poor embochure? A
> poor air support? Maybe is it because I'm not used to these new
> reeds?
It could be any or all of the above. Add in a mechanical problem with the instrument - a faulty pad or bent, misaligned key causing an air leak high on the instrument. That's why someone who at least knows how to make a decent sound (and perhaps would let you try his or her more proven equipment for comparison) could be more helpful than cyber sleuths.
> As for the stock mouthpiece, I already got a Clark Fobes
> Debut (which is probably gonna be in my hands tomorrow). Since
> I'm playing with a harder reed, I found that I'm making a
> firmer embochure and my muscles are getting tired, is this
> normal? I also noticed is very very hard to articulate and when
> I manage to do so without stopping the reed vibration, the
> articulation gets also airy.
This is partly why I asked before about any previous experience you've had. You may have picked up ideas about embouchure, varying its firmness for a harder reed, and the use of the word "articulate" from videos, but they aren't the kind of questions most beginners (of whatever age) are aware of. The young beginners I've started in my career didn't ask questions. They just put their mouths around the mouthpieces and blew. Something almost always came out. Of course, they were generally using clarinets, mouthpieces and reeds of known quality.
I'm interested to know what happens when you first try the Fobes Debut. Try the #2 and if it seems to choke off (close up) try the #3. I think with the Debut's facing a #3 should work, but without much built-up strength in your embouchure muscles, maybe not.
Karl
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Author: jsantos1
Date: 2018-05-16 04:16
@Ken Lagace
Even without any previous experience with the clarinet, I could notice that the stock mouthpiece is garbage. I'll post when I test the Fobes Debut.
@johng
I'll try that! Besides, I'm watching Clarinet Mentors youtube channel, it has been very very helpful.
@kdk
I just noticed my audio was private, just made it public, I hope it works. I played trumped for 3 years, so I know a little bit about how to have a study routine, the basics of playing in tempo, how to read music, etc, but as reed goes, this is my first experience.
I asked my local music shop and they didn't know any clarinet player. I tried some saxophone players, they helped me to understand some basics about reeds and stuff, but they couldn't offer much help besides this.
As soon as I got the instrument, I imediately noticed the poor quality of the mouthpiece. After reading some recomendations, the Charles Fobes Debut was a recomendation I got a lot. Unfortunately where I live, prices are kinda high, but I managed to find a new Fobes Debut at a fair price. Since I don't have any intention on playing professionally, I think it'll do for now.
As far as I can tell, theres no bend, chip or anything that makes the mouthpiece looks damaged, but since it came with a basic instrument, I think it has some imperfections.
For me it looks like the airy sound comes from letting more air pass through the instrument than it's necessary, so after making the reed vibrate, some air get "wasted". I don't know if I'm being clear here, but if you listen to the audio I think you'll get what I'm trying to say.
As I said, I played trumpet before and like the process of practicing everyday, watching my progress and etc, so I try to be as mindful as possible in my practice sessions. I like to understand everything is happening, so sometimes when I find something I think is wrong or unnatural, I'll try to fix it until I keep going forward.
As soon as I get my hands on the Fobes Debut, I'll try the #2 and the #3 and I'll post my experiences here. I'll also record and compare the tone I got with it and the one I got with the stock mouthpiece.
Another question, since I got a "harder" reed, is it common to have my muscles tired? I dind't feel this when I was playing with the #1, but I think it was because it had little to none resistance when I was blowing.
Thanks in advance for all the help and patience! For now this is the only place I can rely on getting some help.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-05-16 05:05
Sounds like the some of the old recordings of early New Orleans jazz players. You're right, there's air getting through the mouthpiece/reed that isn't producing vibration in the reed. It's wasted air. Some ideas - (1) I think the new mouthpiece should make a difference; (2) The reed may be too dry - are you wetting it before you play?; (3) The reed needs to be the right strength for the mouthpiece's curve (facing); (4) Apart from strength, reeds need to be balanced - i.e. both sides need to vibrate uniformly-this won't happen if one side of the reed is stiffer than the other or if one mouthpiece rail curves (away from the reed) differently from the other.
One reed may not be representative of the strength printed on the box it came from. It's usually important to try several at the right strength to find the one(s) that play well. Until you have a good sense of what a decent reed feels like, you might move to a less expensive brand so that you can give yourself a wider selection.
Still pursuing the thought of finding someone who can help face-to-face, do the local schools have instrumental music programs? The teachers who teach in those programs, in addition to whatever instrument(s) they play at a performing level, are generally required to know enough about all instruments to deal with basic issues of tone production and equipment. You might be able to connect with a school music teacher to give you a more secure start with fewer wrong turns and rabbit holes popping into your path, especially since the music dealer is unable or unwilling to help.
Karl
Karl
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Author: jsantos1
Date: 2018-05-17 02:33
@kdk
Thanks again for your detailed response!
So as the new mouthpiece goes, I have to say: it made a HUGE difference. Just from the get go, I could notice it has a better finishing, it plays better and overall it just looks of a better quality. Indeed, it made the sound less airy and the tone improved a lot, but it still gets a little airy, specially when I don't blow hard. Yes, I'm wetting the reed before I play; usually, I let it soak in tap water for 45 seconds before playing. I got a good tone with the #1.5 and the #2; I also played with the #3, but it got more airy than the previous one. As the balancing goes, I can't really tell if the reed is vibrating evenly. With this new mouthpiece, I noticed I need a firmer embochure, which causes my muscles to get tired quite quickly. Is this normal?
I managed to find a teacher in my area, I'll be seeing him next week.
Thanks in advance!
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Author: Speculator Sam
Date: 2018-05-17 03:27
That's grand! Usually when it comes to reeds, beginners start on a 2 or 2.5. Regardless, congrats on finding a teacher. I wish I had the privilege of a proper teacher; you're lucky. We wish you the best of luck jsantos1. Welcome to the club
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-05-17 04:15
jsantos1 wrote:
> With this new mouthpiece, I noticed I need a
> firmer embochure, which causes my muscles to get tired quite
> quickly. Is this normal?
>
You're using muscles in a way you haven't before, so they'll get tired until you've build up some endurance. But that shouldn't be along process. You have to careful not to use more pressure around the mouthpiece than you need.
> I managed to find a teacher in my area, I'll be seeing him next
> week.
Great!. It doesn't need to be a lifetime commitment, but it should make the starting process much easier.
Karl
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