 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-13 19:49
Check this out: http://woodwindboutique.com/
Apparently, their goal now is to offer these instruments online for trial, more or less, which I think is great. I'm quite a fan of Uebel clarinets, which certainly are easier to come by here in Germany, so I'm glad they figured a way to sell them in the US. 60$ restockin fee seems a bit hefty, but hey, you can try them for a while!
Plus, there's finally a price for the new Uebel models Excellence and Superior II. Seems like they're available now too.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-13 20:51
I don't want to initiate a big discussion again. I remember a while ago some people here said they contacted the dealer of Uebel directly and get the reply that their clarinets are 100 percent made in Germany. Now you can see what the truth is (check the Product Details).
http://woodwindboutique.com/bb-clarinets/15-uebel-superior-bb.html
http://woodwindboutique.com/a-clarinets/16-uebel-superior-a.html
However, I must repeat myself again: based on my limited experience on these instruments, they are certainly comparable to any other top brands. Partially made in "Asia" (hopefully no one would argue it means Japan) does not by any means undervalue it.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-13 21:01
Also, $60 seems quite reasonable for trying an instrument with a value around $5000. Still, it would be better if some music stores could stock these clarinets and do the same thing because online shopping of instruments always has a warranty problem.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-13 21:06
Klose,
thanks for pointing this out. Many, including me, thought that their top-line clarinets are made in Germany entirely, so I'm certainly surprised to see this!
Doesn't of course change the fact that they're great clarinets. but I'd have expected them to be cheaper then.
It'd make sense if the Classic or other lower end models were partially made in "Asia", but for a 5k$ model, really? Maybe Uebel will make a clear statement one day, I think the customer should know where their specific clarinet is made.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-13 21:16
Attachment: Uebel_workshop.jpg (91k)
...but on FB, they've posted photos of Boehms getting finished! Is the keywork forged in "Asia"? Are the bodies drilled in Germany? God knows, but I suppose a major amount of work is done in Germany, why else build a complete new workshop? (Another pic shows 4 individual working places, each of them have a bench motor)
Post Edited (2018-04-13 21:20)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-13 21:19
Kalashnikirby, compared to the top models of Buffet and Backun. They are still over $2000 cheaper. I would not expect that the gap would be even bigger even if they are completely made in "Aisa", provided the quality is maintained.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-13 21:21
Klose, right you are. I'm just wondering to what extent this is economically necessary for the high-end models, but this won't influence my decision when chosing an instrument.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-13 21:26
Kalashnikirby, even if they are completely made in "Asia", I will still try them and if they are good, they are good. Nowadays, everything is global, a phone or a car has parts made in everywhere. An iPhone completely made in USA (is that possible?) would be only more expensive and of same quality (if not less) as the iPhone we have.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2018-04-13 23:20
The assembly of the key work is the most labor intensive part of the work with a clarinet so it is rational to do that in low-cost countries. My experience from Yamaha clarinets and other various encounters in life with East Asian people also says that these people are very suitable for the job.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2018-04-13 23:24
Apart from the $60 stocking fee, I suppose the buyer pays for shipping both ways. Still a very favorable offer. In fact, they could have to rise this fee to avoid unreliable buyers, but putting up $4000 might keep them away anyway.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-14 00:24
Quote:
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2017-01-03 05:31
Message I sent to Uebel USA
I'm interested in your clarinets, probably a pair - Bb and an A. (Do you have an Eb?) Are these 100% German? (This is important to me.) I live in Rockford, Illinois - Are there authorized dealers in Chicago? Or can I order direct from Uebel USA? Also - does Uebel still market a Reform-Boehm clarinet?
Reply from Uebel
Thank you for contacting us!
I'm happy to hear that you are interested in Uebel clarinets and I'm sorry to say that we don't have a dealer in Chicago yet.
That being said, we'd be more than happy to get you a set of Uebels directly.
The Uebel Clarinets are completely made in Germany and there is a German (Oehler) System line and a French (Boehm) System line.
In the French System line, the Superior, which comes in the key of Bb and A, is the one with the most German sound by far.
It is known for being very dark, warm, and overall German in sound, which is actually the reason Uebel discontinued their Reform clarinet. The Superior comes so close to the German sound, there was no longer a need for the Reform, since its bore in particular is designed to get you the warmth and velvety sound of the Oehler clarinet without the German keywork.
The other Uebel clarinet that comes in Bb and A, is the Advantage, which is a little more free blowing than the Superior but also slightly less German in sound.
There is a Superior Eb clarinet that is about to be released, but we don't have an exact release date from the manufacturer quite yet. If you want I can let you know once we get one in stock here in the US.
We would be very happy to get you one or more Uebel clarinets and from what you described in your email, it definitely sounds like the Uebels are a great choice for you.
I hope I answered your questions. Please don't hesitate to let me know if you have any more about the clarinet or the process of purchasing one from us. I'm happy to assist in any way I can.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards,
Annabelle
--
Annabelle Moe
Marketing and Sales
Moe-Bleichner Music Distribution
1117 Mahantongo St
Pottsville, PA 17090
Fax: 912.292.9866
www.Moe-Bleichner.com
From this, we can clearly know that sometimes what the dealer said is not trustable at all.
I believe it is time for us, musicians, to change the concept of instrument making. In the violin world, for a long time, people believed one major reason why Stradivarius is good is because it is Italian. However, very carefully performed tests have evidently proved that modern violins made by a variety of luthiers can be equally good. On the other hand, particularly in the clarinet world, the only dominant brand Buffet always uses all means of propaganda to educate people that their clarinets with a French instruments making craft tradition are the best. This kind of marketing behaviors simply make other competitors struggle to survive. Have a look at how many professional flute manufactures are in USA. And for clarinet? none! People complain about the quality of Buffet all the time but still only a few people would try other small brands.
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-04-14 01:53
"My experience from Yamaha clarinets and other various encounters in life with East Asian people also says that these people are very suitable for the job."
Ouch!
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-04-14 02:36
I don't think it's necessarily the "french craft" but rather the people don't know what instrument to buy. When people are out in the market for a professional instrument, the first thing they hear from their peers and teachers is to get an R13.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-14 02:40
May I please point out that the main goal of this thread was actually not to discuss the Uebel's origin - however, I've contacted the German Page in FB and perhaps they'll give a detailed answer - but that this is a pretty viable business model for selling clarinets online.
But as Johann H Nilsson said, they keyword assembly is the most labour intensive - why would that step be done in the German workshop? May MB has been misinformed, who knows...
RZ clarinets look great too, and they're definitely 100% made in CZ.
Recently, I've tried to avoid condemning Buffet, but honestly, brands like these or Yamaha seem to produce so much better value instruments. Now people in the US will have an opportunity to test these underdogs against the R13
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-04-14 07:17
Johan H Nilsson: "My experience from Yamaha clarinets and other various encounters in life with East Asian people also says that these people are very suitable for the job."
You know the only reason you're not getting any negative responses or getting in trouble from that remark is only because the BBoard is primarily comprised of members who are of Causasian descent right? I guess I'll just treat your racist remark as a joke as long as you are aware of this fact.
-- Ray Zhang
Post Edited (2018-04-14 10:43)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-04-14 07:24
"It is known for being very dark, warm, and overall German in sound, which is actually the reason Uebel discontinued their Reform clarinet. The Superior comes so close to the German sound, there was no longer a need for the Reform, since its bore in particular is designed to get you the warmth and velvety sound of the Oehler clarinet without the German keywork."
Similar to my experience trying RB and French bore instruments at S&S. The Kaiser basses seem not to be included in the latest distributership arrangement, which is a shame. In any event, I agree with Klose: if you're good enough to play one of these, you're good enough to evaluate the sound, the keywork, and so on for yourself in comparison to other top models. Where the work was done is secondary to how it plays and how good the finishing work is. People need to trust their own judgment. If it sounds good, it is good.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-04-14 07:47
Ray,
Not sure what Johan's intent was, but I might not have taken it quite the same way. It's well known that for at least the past 30 or 40 years, Japanese makers and techs have been at the very top level with wind instrument making and keywork adjustment, and there's no reason not to expect the same from China and other Asian countries. Tip O'Neill said that "all politics is local," and the same applies to instruments. In any given workshop, how much time is spent by people who really know what they are doing to produce an instrument, and of course, how good is the design? A culture that produced Tang poetry can produce world-class clarinets; but it's up to a few craftspeople in a workshop somewhere to actually do that. That's what makes trying new instruments such fun.
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-04-14 09:52
No I'm sorry, you don't refer to people from East Asia as "these people", then generalise about their ability to do repetitive semi skilled labour without sounding racist.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2018-04-14 23:47
The "Excellence" model Uebel, though a bit pricey, most interests me. If I want a traditional German sound (which I very much like), I'll get an Oehler. In a Boehm, the additional "volume" and "brilliance" promised by the Excellence can't be bad, if matched with good intonation and responsiveness.
Ditto for Backun. I'm still waiting for a really sparkly Backun model. Maybe the new CG (out of my price range) or the forthcoming Luminere? After almost 60 years of playing and experimentation, I've just accepted that Boehm clarinets play best when they sound like Boehms (i.e. the Klose/Buffet instruments). To make a better Boehm is possible, but its going to tilt toward French chandelier-like brilliance. That's the nature of the Boehm beast, and I've accepted it.
And yes, Ray, the "those people" language in a previous comment does come across as racist, imperialist, and condescending, whether the poster intended it to or not. It is entirely inappropriate and wrong. Many members of this list probably concur with you in this but we don't want to fan that flame because we'd rather leave politics out of our postings and just talk about the clarinet. A statement along the lines of "if the techs who do the keywork on Uebel clarinets can match the high quality work we have come to enjoy from companies like Yamaha, that will be great" might have come across as a compliment rather than a possibly snide assumption of racial determinism and an opportunity to put others "in their place."
Post Edited (2018-04-15 04:18)
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Author: Caihlen
Date: 2018-04-15 00:17
I agree that it was an inappropriate remark, and disturbing.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-15 04:11
Have to agree, that comment was not necessary. Besides, the keywork fitting is done in Germany as the photo clearly suggested! I found the Uebel Boehms to be splendidly setup, which will be a huge argument once I have to work full-time because a) I don't want to bother with wasting time finding a better setup and b) it'll be easier to reproduce for me (if there's time still to work on the clarinet myself)
Whether a working attitude of one or another people has a significant effect on the quality of a clarinet, I cannot determine. The degradation of Buffet quality and the rise of Yamaha clarinets only shows that individual companies shouldn't rest too easily on their own success.
In case of Uebel, here's two things to consider as to why they might be more competitively priced that Buffet: Germany has, compared to some other West-European countries, actually pretty low wages for many trades. There's a reason the cheaper Buffets are made by Schreiber and looking at certain french labour rights, I'm rather astonished. In general, France doesn't seem very competitive compared to Germany, which is reflected by lower international exports. Yet that does not mean there are some very fine french instruments.... And even Buffets
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-17 14:40
To clear this once and for all:
Uebel told me that their Superior is made in Markneukirchen, whereas their student models like the Etude are pre-made in Asia and finished and adjusted in Germany.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-17 16:05
Christian, see the email I cited. Don't trust any private message sent from the company/dealer. I don't believe any dealer will make such a stupid mistake on their website. Usually, they only make "mistakes" which are good to them but of course in this case, it's illegal. Furthermore, no company would be too stupid to print "Germany" only if they are entirely made in Markneukirchen. Again, it is also about legality here.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-04-17 17:02
Kalashnikirby:
When I was in the process of buying my set of Superiors from MB, Annebell reflected the same origins to me as well. Germany on on Suoeriors, mixed origins on the entry level, student models.
My superiors have exceeded any expectations and I’ve gotten numerous compliments about my sound quality vs my old Prestiges. Plus the superiors have better response and intonation compared to my Buffets. Win/Win.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-18 02:00
Klose,
I'm not entirely sure how to take the message from Uebel Germany themselves then. If they give me a detailed answer, why not trust it? Oh BTW, they also mentioned some work on lower end models is done in Wiesbaden (Ger).
Honestly, the Boehm system is more than simple enough for makers to produce high-end clarinets in one place, which I think reflects on the quality of their better models, and still sell them at this price tag.
Local patritism or not, their high-end Boehms are on an entirely different level than their already very decent Oehler horns. No way they could produce this level of quality in their overseas workshop
One day, I'll take a trip to Markneukirchen and see for myself, I promise
Robert,
That's great to hear. Compared to the Prestige, the keywork seemed to work faster and felt more ergonomical, besides the very different sound.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-18 02:40
Christian, to be honest, I even have doubts regarding if the headquarter of this company is really located in Germany. This is because it is extremely weird that on their German website, when you check the contact info, there is only Arnold Stölzel GmbH and it is only a so-called "worldwide distribution". All people you can contact are the ones from Stölzel GmbH. For companies as small as Wurlizter and Leitner & Klaus, they are both GmbH themselves and of course you can easily contact their staff like CEO.
These things all are very strong evidence to show Uebel is now probably even not a real German company. And, when you check the legal info on the website, it says F. Arthur Uebel GmbH • Rostocker Str. 18-20 • D-65191 Wiesbaden • Germany. However, in fact this address is just the same one of "Arnold Stölzel GmbH Musikinstrumentengroßhandel Import - Export" (check google maps). And they even have the same phone/fax numbers. So now things become very weird. It is very common in watch industry, some people just register a company in Switzerland (likely have a small local company as a partner). In this way, they could legally claim that they are also a Swiss brand but of course, it is forbidden by law to print "Made in Switzerland" on the watches. To protect the real Swiss brands, the official watch association even has to release a list to differentiate these brands.
Post Edited (2018-04-18 10:28)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-18 03:01
Oh! I forgot to mention: our "F. Arthur Uebel GmbH" even has a CEO who is also the CEO of Arnold Stölzel GmbH: Jürgen Stölzel.
I believe it is obvious but of course everyone here can judge by yourself.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-18 11:25
I have to dissent, it's not that obvious as you may suspect. Uebel was taken over by Arnold Stölzel GmbH in 2005 and since then clarinet production was outsourced, but you're probably already aware of this. However, as I said earlier, by now, a certain amount of work is done in Markneukirchen, with a new workshop having been set up just a few months ago.
What's interesting: I wasn't aware of the high degree of sourcing, making the path of their higher-end models untraceable. In a statement related to a german forum user, they said:
-The grenadille is stored for at least 5 years in Wiesbaden
-The complete key material is made by a well-known german supplier*
-The hinge rods are made in Hessen
-Springs are made either in France or Germany
-The silver solder is made in Rheinland-Pfalz
In their chinese factory, the clarinets are assembled under strict supervision... etc. pp.
With this in mind, it'd make sense that the high-end models are finished in Germany still, even if the bodies are drilled in China. I have to admit, it'll be impossible to tell the complete origins of a Superior, but by now, I don't really care anymore.
*One reason why there are so many small clarinet makers in Germany. You "only" need to drill the bodies and solder the metal parts together.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-04-18 17:50
Christian,
A propos of your last comment, I visited the Wurlitzer workshop in the mid '70s, and Herbert said the keys were made through "Hauswerk": lots of individuals or small companies fabricating them according to specs and selling them to instrument makers on a piecework basis. These days, it's possible for most of the drilling to be computerized, as they do at S&S. Really, the most important step in the process is finishing; not only making sure everything is assembled properly, but playing it and adjusting the tuning and voicing. With Wurlitzer, S&S, L&K and so on, they all understand that their reputation rests on that, so they don't skimp. From everything I've heard, Uebel is the same way at least with the Superiors and the Emperor basses.
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Author: Caihlen
Date: 2018-04-18 18:13
I'm fascinated by the German sound concept. Too bad there isn't a readily available way to play these fine instruments in the States as a comparison. Really enjoying the insights in this conversation.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-18 19:53
Dorjepismo,
that's interesting, must've been a great experience for you!
It seems that nowadays, there aren't many too different key parts manufacturers. For instance, the g#/c# key on many small makers' clarinets has a very specific swung form, but are sanded down to fit into their own concept, so I'd assume these are all made by one corresponding manufacturer.
I absolutely agree with your statement that the final assembly and tuning are what makes a great clarinet. Many makers use the same type of drilling machinery made by Boehm Tools, yet some produce particulary great results. Likewise, Ridenour apparently crafts sucessful instruments from relatively cheap material sourced entirely from China.
Oh, what if Uebel decided to produce a plastic bass with decent key material... ?
Caihlen,
That's what my initial post tried to outline: Now you can order them for trial and pay an OK stocking fee. Unless you're refering to Wurlitzer & co., but don't worry, it's still bothersome to find one for trial here in Germany and Reform Boehms aren't readily available at all. For starters, you could use a german mouthpiece. I know someone with a very nice set of L&K who plays on a Boehm mouthpiece and claimed there wasn't too much of a difference to the french sound. IMHO, my Viotto B3 on a german clarinet sounds slightly darker, but whether it's me or the instrument, I've somewhat alienated from the german sound over the years.
Keep in mind that intonation might be an issue with different MPCs on the "wrong" instrument.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2018-04-18 19:58
Let's get off this "where is it made" because, in the short and long run, who gives a damn? Is it a good instrument? In tune? Meets my expectation? Does it suit me?
Anything else is smoke and bs. You shouldn't care where it's made - just care that it's a good instrument. Lie to me, I don't really care. I'm not buying anything else except for the instrument.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2018-04-19 00:54
I agree with Mark. All I can say is I LOVE my Uebel bass.... and the Moes are GREAT folks to work with.
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Author: DG74
Date: 2018-04-19 21:38
I've got to agree Tucker - I play the Preference Bb and it put my Buffet Festival and Yamaha CSVR to shame in pretty much every way. It's like the clarinet I've always wanted to own. And everyone at Moe-Bleichner is the absolute best to work with. I've never experienced such good customer service.
On one hand, I'd like to see Uebel have a larger US presence and be more aggressive in this market. But on the other hand their small market share allows for more personalized attention, which you don't get anywhere else. Also, I'm sure the smaller output of instruments allows the quality to be as high as it is.
I agree, Mark, I don't care where they're making them - it seems only Uebel gets this criticism on this board repeatedly. All I know is whoever is making them knows what they're doing.
A while back there was a posting on here saying that Moe-Bleichner was no longer going to distribute Uebel in the US but it would appear that is no longer accurate? Anyone have any updates? I really hope they continue, per my previous comments.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-04-19 22:45
Moe-Bleichner is a great company...customer service off the charts. I'm pretty sure I owe Annabel and Andreas dinner for all of their exceptional help. (As a side, I was hell bent on buying Yamaha, but after waiting a month - sending several emails - no one bothered to follow up with me so I could place my order. I gave up. Uebel got my business and I don't regret it for a second. Even-though I love Yamaha's offerings dearly. This is business, it's not personal. MB wanted my cash more.)
I also agree the double standard concerning Uebel. I haven't heard a word about other clarinet manufacturers outsourcing components - why is Uebel committing a mortal sin. I just care about the end product in my hands. I'd bet my set of Superiors if everyone here tried one, they'd drop Buffet like a hot potato.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-04-19 23:19
Agree with Mark and others. Hope in the future everyone will like you guys and then Uebel can proudly print "Made in China" on their clarinets and possibly make their clarinets even cheaper.
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Author: claralot
Date: 2018-04-19 23:29
"A while back there was a posting on here saying that Moe-Bleichner was no longer going to distribute Uebel in the US but it would appear that is no longer accurate? Anyone have any updates?"
Correct the above state is no longer accurate.
According to a Moe-Bleichner artist friend of mine, Moe-Bleichner has an agreement with Uebel to continue distribution and sales.
I have been playing the Superior since August and love it.
...Mike
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2018-04-20 02:33
Nothing against production elsewhere, but why not give all the pieces of information? Are people that biased? I, for one, just enjoy knowing where and how it's made, simple as that. Other than that, I totally agree with you guys.
Robert,
why yes, Uebel outsourcing on this level is an exellent Idea - the keywork is on level, or at least very close to the finest clarinets and outdoes Buffet IMHO.
Best regards
Christian
Post Edited (2018-04-20 10:57)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-04-20 10:53
>> Let's get off this "where is it made" because, in the short and long run, who gives a damn? <<
I didn't read a lot of the posts and if it leads nowhere with no new information, sure. As an idea in general, not specific to Uebel or any company specifically, we absolutely should care (or give a damn as you say). Even if it doesn't affect anyone buying or not buying a product. The trend of companies trying to hide, obscure or give as few details about their products as they can get away with is a very bad one. There is no good reason to do this but it can be an honest mistake sometimes. This is certainly far more important than any clarinet being good or not.
That said, sometimes it isn't completely clear and there are some laws (I guess they could vary in different countries) what % of the product has to be made somewhere to be considered made there, even if other parts are made elsewhere.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2018-04-21 06:31
The keys are made in North Korea from depleted uranium. Adds ping.
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Author: crelias11
Date: 2020-01-12 18:38
I was just there 2 days ago and bought a Superior. Loved the experience. They spent time allowed me to make my own choice. All the clarinets of the same model very consistent. I loved the sound as I am really a bassoon player, playing a vintage Puchner. I am getting rid of the "modern" R13. I fell for the the R13 hype. I'll have a better opinion after the month break in period but each playing session gets better and it's a given there will be some tweaking in a month. No clarinet is pefect-try dealing with a bassoon. NotcsurexI agree with all the Uebel negativity but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Not sure how people are finding out the Asian connection vs German unless they've been to both factories. It's a much better made clarinet the ny R13. The R13 looks pretty but that's it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-12 23:27
I was gonna let this one go when I first saw this but I have to chime in.
The Uebel horns ARE really good, particularly from the Advantage on up.
There was some weirdness with Moe-Bleichner that I still haven't really had resolved to my satisfaction yet though. They started out (from when I became aware of them in 2013) as a typical distributor trying to find more and more US dealers to sell the Uebel line. Then about two years ago they decided to turn the business into an exclusive online entity of which they had sole ownership. That seems pretty stupid to me. I would NEVER buy a clarinet that I had not tried BEFORE purchase. So I found another distributor.
Heaven knows there's always "another" entrepreneur out there.
I don't know where Moe-Bleichner is on this issue right now but I'd rather just use the "other" guys.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2020-01-14 18:20
Moe has their own business. But there are other distributors of the Uebels in the USA.
So does Moe still have the lengthy trial period?
I know players who have the wall and are very happy with them but I’m still in love with my Backun’s that’s what I choose to play.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2020-01-14 21:55
Paul,
I think Vienna Music (https://www.viennamusicus.com/) does online sales as well, and the prices seem slightly different from MB. I had some correspondence with Andreas Moe last year about pads and he was quite helpful, so I have a positive impression of them, but haven't actually bought anything. At the time, he said he was doing warranty work for Uebel.
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