 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-04-12 02:44
I play a pair of R13's, a Bb and an A. On both of them F#5 is relatively harsh and edgy. The effect isn't glaring, but it's noticeable, certainly at least to me. It's worse on the Bb instrument. The adjacent notes all seem fine. The 12th lower (B3) seems fine. The edgy F#4's are in tune. (Maybe it's unrelated, but D# 6 with rh middle finger is quite flat and I rarely use it, usually opting for rh index plus sliver key.)
I've accepted these harsh F#5s for years, and sort of modified my address in playing to try to minimize the problem. However, it isn't fully effective (done by me), nor do I like changing things up that way. One of our band pieces this season has a loud entrance right on that note, and the other night at rehearsal my attention finally became drawn to trying to address this problem.
Since I get this on both instruments, is it an R13 thing? Or what? Any advice?
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-04-12 03:46
I think it's pretty normal. The same problem occurs on my CSVR. On most instruments, The F5 is a pretty stuffy note and one you switch over to F#5, it's much more harsh and projecting. The G5 is not as bad but has a similar feeling to the F#5. If it's a big problem, I'd just use the chromatic fingering for F# and see how that works out.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2018-04-12 04:18
I agree with GenEric - use the chromatic fingering when possible. I had a pre-R13 Bb with the same problem. On my Libertas, the normal F#5 fingering sounds good.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-04-12 04:32
I remember hearing a masterclass on YouTube where Stephen Williamson said he always used the chromatic fingering for F#5 whenever possible, and advised the student to do so as well. I have the same problem as well, and use sliver key F# (chromatic fingering) whenever possible
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-04-12 06:23
I should have mentioned that, as people assumed, I did mean the single-finger fingering. The chromatic fingering is better sounding, and I do use it when I can. That includes going between F#4 and E4 if it's not really fast or a trill.
Interesting that this problem is so common.
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2018-04-12 07:14
When designing the clarinet, it's all about making compromises. I guess that making the F# more harsh was something all the manufactures agreed upon.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2018-04-12 12:49
This is always a poor note: being forked, it's not vented properly. The Acton vent on the B+H 1010 cures the venting to some extent, but for every other instrument, you need to take some evasive action. I have 3 strategies:
(1) The chromatic fingering with the sliver key. But this often the opposite problem: a bit too dull and covered.
(2) Add the Ab/Eb key
(3) Play it with the ring finger rather than the middle finger: xxx oox instead of xxx oxo
(2) and (3) make the note a little sharper, but it's easy to compensate (as we routinely do, for example, to deal with the fact that E5 tends to be a little flat). For a solo, in particular, (3) is very effective in terms of tone quality, and converts that F# from one of the worst notes to one of the best.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2018-04-14 04:30
John Peacock's (3) is improved and flattened by adding the F#/C# key – and actually F# quite often functions as a major third in a chord, so needs to be 'not sharp'. (See the slow movement of Weber I.)
Tony
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-04-14 04:51
As others above have mentioned, get into the habit of using the chromatic fingering when possible - I recall many years back Ricardo Morales advising me to do so in Beethoven 8, so it's not just Steve Williamson who recommends this.
On another recent thread someone asked about the Oehler system right hand keys, where there is a finger plate for the middle finger. This system of keys provides extra venting to avoid exactly this problem (only, regarding the German system fingering, but I'm sure you can understand the correlation).
Dn
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-04-14 10:26
>> and actually F# quite often functions as a major third in a chord <<
Reminds me of the joke about the bass player who was asked to play the sub dominant of F. He didn't understand what to play because F is already a sub dominant...
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-04-14 18:20
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'll find uses for John and Tony's suggestion of the ring-finger alternate fingering.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2018-04-15 15:01
Tony: I'd experimented with adding the F#/C# key, and that worked well on a Leblanc LL that I used to play. But on Buffets I find that overdoes it and makes the note a little too flat in most contexts - and I'd rather lip down a slightly sharp note than vice versa. For me, the best compromise is to play RH oox without adding the F#/C# key, but to keep the top two fingers relatively close to the open holes - that lowers the pitch enough without making things stuffy.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-04-15 20:08
I've done the exact thing has Mr. Peacock for years. That flute fingering kills (for me) some of the upper harmonics and keeps it from being so strident.
But in general, I'll use the fork fingering when ever advantageous. Even in unconventional (controversial?) spots like the opening note in Copland. If one can execute cleanly, then there's no harm. The fork F#5 has similar characteristic to the following E5 on my Uebel (and old Prestige).
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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