Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-04-08 16:05

For me, an Oehler system player, I have no problems at all to play the beginning of this movement, C4#-F3-E3-C4#-C4-E3-G3# (note: it is pretty fast here). Actually on Oehler system clarinets, it can be done in two ways. But I notice the second clarinet (Böhm system) player sitting next to me has some problems and I advised him to skip the first note. So could you Böhm system players please tell me if there are any better solutions for this?

Edited: Thank Karl for the correction.



Post Edited (2018-04-08 18:15)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: rmk54 
Date:   2018-04-08 16:57

There are not.

It's actually the fourth note that creates the problem.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-04-08 17:58

What edition (orchestration) are you playing. My copy of the Ravel orchestration (with the original piano part at the bottom of the score) shows C-natural(4) at the fifth note (after the second C#) and it ends on G# (it's actually spelled in flats, not sharps). Are you using a different orchestration?

Given the notes you've transcribed, on some Boehm clarinets, C#4 can be played T XXO|XX0. The fingering is more often used for G#5 and the pitch won't be pristine. You could either start with it, use it only on the second C# or use it for both.

It isn't impossible to do by jumping the LH pinky up from E3 to C# (I think that's how I've done it - but I haven't played the piece in a long time and my memory may be clouded).

Failing either of those, I think the better notes to leave out are either the 2nd note (F3 - play the next E3 on the right) or the 4th note (the 2nd C#). The reason for me is that at the tempo involved re-starting on a beat (either 2 or 3) is easier - I'm less prone to start late than if I start or re-start on a subdivision.

Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Philip Caron 
Date:   2018-04-08 18:12

If it's too fast to switch pinky either the F3 or E3, then slide the RH pinky off F3 to E3.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-04-08 18:17
Attachment:  Untitled.jpeg (25k)

Thanks Karl and I have corrected it. Yes, it is pretty fast and it is legato. See attached picture for the sheet music.



Post Edited (2018-04-08 18:18)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-04-08 18:34

The second clarinet player tried sliding but it is never smooth enough. Also given that on standard Böhm clarinet, or at least on his instrument, E3 and F3 are a bit too low at ff(I use correction key on my Oehler). Probably I will advise him to skip the whole phrase.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: cigleris 
Date:   2018-04-08 20:34

I’ve played this with Dutoit. I was able to slide as did my second. I suggest that your second does some slow practice sliding.

Peter Cigleris
http://www.calarecords.com/acatalog/info_CACD77015.html
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/english-fantasy/id594011840

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-04-08 23:56

cigleris wrote:

> I’ve played this with Dutoit. I was able to slide as did my
> second. I suggest that your second does some slow practice
> sliding.
>

Just curious, did anyone from you orchestra reported any sexual misconduct of Dutoit?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Ken Lagace 
Date:   2018-04-09 01:44

Don't have the parts in front of me but..
If I can remember correctly, it is written for Bb and can be transposed on the A clarinet.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-04-09 02:39

When all is said and done, it isn't really important that the 2nd clarinet play this - it's well covered by the low strings (the main sonority) and bassoons.

On the other hand, I've heard such a range of tempi for this figure - from too fast to hear the individual notes to so slow you might actually worry about the notes' tuning. At the slowest end of the range (e.g. Stokowski), almost any fingering might be possible.

Ken's solution of using an A clarinet is certainly workable. The A will be out anyway (unless the player is going to transpose the written A clarinet sections to Bb).


Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: RBlack 
Date:   2018-04-09 07:23

When I played this I did a LH slide from the low E up to C#. My section-mate did the other slide, doing RH F to E.

Robin

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: cigleris 
Date:   2018-04-09 15:41

Klose wrote:

“Just curious, did anyone from you orchestra reported any sexual misconduct of Dutoit?”

That would be extremely unprofessional of me to make any sort of comment.

Peter Cigleris
http://www.calarecords.com/acatalog/info_CACD77015.html
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/english-fantasy/id594011840

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Philip Caron 
Date:   2018-04-09 18:16

Hi Robin. I'm curious as to the make & model of instrument on which you do the lh low E-C# slide. I'm annoyed with my R13 pair for what I perceive to be an unnecessarily awkward arrangement of lh pinky keys. The key heights, gaps, and "throw" seem to require more agility or intelligence of that pinky than the keys for the rh. That slide, while doable, is not a good one for me on them.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-04-09 19:17

Can you have the key positions adjusted? You can't move them very far, but they can be positioned to a limited extent or touchpieces can be added to make things more comfortable.

That isn't to say that the comfort level of the key arrangement shouldn't be an important criterion when you buy an instrument.

I haven't sat down to actually try that slide (maybe more of a quick jump), but my kinetic sense away from the instrument feels like I could do it that way. It's much more important, if you play that passage, to get the right notes in tempo than it is to play it smoothly.

Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2018-04-09 21:37

>> It's much more important, if you play that passage, to get the right notes in tempo than it is to play it smoothly. >>

Indeed, though you want it EVEN, you don't want it TOO smooth – the abruptness of the minitransitions helps the clarity. See:

http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/lookup.php/Klarinet/2007/12/000213.txt

Just as there are different sorts of staccato, there are different sorts of legato.

Tony

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Gnomus from Pictures at an Exhibition
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2018-04-10 01:51

On my R13, the momentum of key and finger movement makes the right hand slide from F down to E (that RBlack's associate preferred) the easiest, and the choice most likely to give me the "evenness" as well as some of "clarity and fizz" Tony suggests passages like this one need, rather than syrupy smoothness.

Some regular practice on little finger clarinet gymnastics is necessary, and for that I like some of the exercises in Floyd Low's "Little Finger Key Studies for Clarinet," now long out of print but available for free online here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5jJoGnfZpcVTGRMQkJQUmJyVjA/view?usp=sharing.

The final study, number 17 "12 Measures of Misery" brings players face to face with problems they'd rather not see, but surely will if they play enough music. I don't care for most of Low's condescending and nagging cartoons, though. The suppose they're examples of "Low humor" (like this pun).



Post Edited (2018-04-10 01:52)

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org