 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rikie
Date: 2018-03-14 22:55
I recently bought myself an old B&H 2-20 series. I know nothing about this instrument. Can someone help me according to age and what the sound looks like???
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-15 03:11
They're the same clarinet as the B&H Edgware - wooden body with nickel plated keys. They often have a long side Eb/Bb touchpiece instead of the usual golf club-shaped key and also have a metal bell ring when the standard model Edgware had a ringless bell with a decorative groove machined around the flare.
They were made n the '60s - mine was from 1965 with the serial number 234701. It got stolen when I was at college, but I had moved onto large bore Selmers (BT Bb and CT A) by then.
Most B&H serial number lists published on the interwebs are way off the mark, so don't trust them. This one is the most accurate:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=Y2xhcmluZXRwYWdlcy5uZXR8d3d3fGd4OjE3ODg2ZmNkN2VlZmNjY2Y
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Rikie
Date: 2018-03-23 00:11
thnx for your reply. I like the sound of the instrument and I think of getting it overhauled.
Rikie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-23 01:46
If you're wondering what the equivalent clarinet or insurance cost is, then the current production models would be a Buffet E12F or a Yamaha 455.
Definitely worth restoring as they're usually made from nice wood and the keywork is robust - it's nickel plated nickel silver and not the soft and brittle die cast Mazak keywork (a zinc alloy) as used on the older B&H Regent and "77" clarinets.
They have all stainless steel screws, but have the phosphor bronze needle springs replaced for either stainless steel or blued steel as they're far more durable. Phosphor bronze springs can fatigue easily and they have the annoying habit of breaking flush with the pillars, so making them difficult to extract and also due to how soft they are, so spring punches can flare the broken end out making removal a nightmare.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Rikie
Date: 2018-03-28 20:27
thank you Chris.
so if I could find myself a 1010, it would even be better!!
my plan is to let this one overhaul.
i bought it for only € 65.
Rikie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-28 23:07
A 1010 is a different beast, they may not suit everyone and some can be better than others as they are variable in their tuning and build quality.
You'll either have to use a 1010 specific mouthpiece or have one bored up to work with it. You can use any mouthpiece with the 2-20, so not restricted as you would be with a 1010.
I found my 2-20 in a junk sale in Texas for $7.75 back in 1986 - it was the clarinet I learnt a lot of my early repair skills on from repadding, respringing, tonehole bushing, tenon sleeving and various other things.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Rikie
Date: 2018-03-31 18:19
I'll keep my 2-20. I like the instruments sound, it's very warm. the only thing that matters me is the barrel, i think it's not an B&H. it was to small for my mouthpiece so at the saxstore the made it a bit wider. I use an van Dooren B40 lyra.
thanks for your reply.
Rikie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-31 20:43
If you can find a used 67mm B&H barrel, either for a Regent, Edgware, Emperor or Imperial 926, they'll all work well with the 2-20.
Also a Besson Westminster, Rudall Carte 'Star Line' or B&H Marlborough barrel will do (ie. any B&H barrel apart from a 1010, B&H "78" or 400).
The B&H barrels marked 'SHORT' on the back are 62mm long, but that will make the already throat notes really sharp if you're already a sharp player. They're designed for a 67mm barrel and play in tune with themselves with it pulled out by around 1mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jim22
Date: 2018-04-01 07:51
I wonder if any of this applies to the Boosey and Hawkes I have? The bell emblem reads Stratford and has a star at the top in the center. The barrel is marked "short", and may not be the original barrel. The throat tones are way off pitch.
Jim C.
CT, USA
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Author: Rikie
Date: 2018-04-03 13:54
Chris, thanks for your advice. I will see if it's possible to buy one. Overhere, in Holland, B&H is not so common.
I've already looked on E-bay but there are not much barrels for sale.
Rikie
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2018-04-04 03:36
If all else fails a local tech could ream out another make barrel to the correct bore.
The B&H "926" type of bore is 15.05 mm and absolutely parallel so the work could be done with a standard expanding engineering reamer.
Also most French bore barrels have bores smaller than 15 mm so there is enough material in them to enable the reaming.
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Author: Adrian_B-flat
Date: 2018-04-04 06:21
I brought a B&H 2-20 into a shop and one of the techs there said that it was a good thing I had the original mouthpiece because the standard Barrel that comes with the clarinet has a narrower interior circumference than “normal” barrels.
I don’t know if that’s true- it’s just what he told me.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2018-04-05 02:57
Never heard of that Adrian
What area does this Tech work in ??
What circumference was he talking about - Bore ?? top socket ??
I have come across a few older Yamahas with slightly smaller diameter top sockets on their barrels but never B&H
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-04-05 12:31
The mouthpiece socket on B&H barrels is pretty much standard among clarinets both new and old - there's no reason for it to be narrower than others.
I know for a fact I can use my mouthpiece on pretty much any clarinet and it'll be a good fit - the only clarinet where the mouthpiece socket is wide is a '70s Yamaha YCL-24 where the mouthpiece socket is considerably wider, so I have to use a strip of paper to achieve a good fit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Adrian_B-flat
Date: 2018-04-05 18:05
Caroline: I'm not sure what you meant by "what area does this tech work in?". If you mean "area of expertise", I don't know actually know if the tech was a clarinet specialist or general woodwind tech or whatever as I don't know the techs at this shop (I've only been there a couple of times before and this was the first time I'd actually met any of the techs). As for "geographic area", I'll go as specific as "New Jersey". I'd not like to potentially cause trouble in the event there was some kind of misunderstanding.
Having said that, it occurred to me that I could test it by trying one of my own mouthpieces (a Gale Hollywood) in the clarinet (the B&H isn't mine- I brought it in to get an estimate on repair on someone's behalf). It was a a little tight but it fit without any real effort to put it on. That same mouthpiece is "just right" in my Yamaha YCL34. However, my Vandoren CL4 mouthpiece is a "tight-ish+" fit in my YCL34 (but that was when the CL4 was new).
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2018-04-06 00:07
I have a couple of 1-10 B&H clarinets, which AFAIK are identical to the 2-20 but made of relatively nice hard rubber. I have overhauled one with leather and cork pads and it is a very nice player...no intonation issues and a really sweet tone compared to my older Selmers.
Thanx for the tip on the springs, Chris...I left the originals in the one that I overhauled as they seemed in pretty good shape; the horn was all original, I believe. Certainly the tenon corks were original, as they were string wound under the cork and embedded in shellac (which was a pain to clean up).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-04-06 00:25
The 1-10 is the same clarinet as the plastic B&H Regent (not the wooden ones from the '50s with Mazak keys) and like many plastic clarinets, were first made from Bakelite and much later from ABS resin.
While the keywork fit and finish was variable (as they are the B&H equivalent of Bundy clarinets until B&H imported actual Bundys under the name B&H "78" while still making their own plastic Regents), they can be made into nice players with the required fettling and using much thinner materials instead of the really thick key corks B&H used.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2018-04-08 04:27
Bakelite...huh.
That explains why it is lighter than I expected. I'm still trying to decide whether I like the B&H or a Vito 7214 better for 'kicking around'...outdoors, dangerous jam sessions, etc...
Jeff
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-04-08 16:27
B&H did use ebonite as well - the B&H "77" clarinets from the '50s had ebonite bells (and Mazak keys) and they offered the '50s Edgware, Imperial and 1010 entirely in ebonite - it usually turned green whereas the later Bakelite Regents (and some Emperors) remained jet black.
In the '70s they also offered the Edgware Bb and A clarinets in PVC which was machined like their wooden and ebonite clarinets instead of injection moulded and featured ebonite tonehole chimneys (which also turned green). The PVC ones have a dark grey look about them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-04-08 19:37
I have examples of the B & H Emperor and Imperial in hard rubber and wood. My Imperial was an interesting shade of olive green when I originally bought it (for $A30, advertised as an old Japanese clarinet), but it responded very well to treatment with Feibings black leather dye and is now the shiny black it was meant to be. Personally I prefer the rubber Imperial to my wood Imperial. The catalogue price of the rubber instruments was slightly more than the wood instruments.
Tony F.
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