 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2018-03-19 22:03
Can someone please give a definitive list of the bladder pad sizes for a standard R13, as well as the regular thicknesses. (Buffet R13 uses thinner pads?) I realize that I can buy complete pad sets, but I'd rather buy a few dozen of each size just to replenish my emergency repair box for students (and myself)
I've seen conflicting charts for the 17 R13 pads, and would like to get a list from the techs, experienced repair people, etc...
...GBK
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2018-03-20 03:57
Depends partly on the age of the clarinet. The F# ring key use to take a smaller pad. I don't use many bladder pads any more but I use to use 9.5mm, 11.5mm( 2 pads) and 16.5mm (3 pads) and I forget the size for the LH Ab/Eb (14.5mm?). The thickness is probably around .110". I'm not in my shop right now to check.
Steve Ocone
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-03-20 09:07
It can vary.
1. R13s from different times can have slightly different sizes.
2. The exact model of pad can make a difference because of the shape and diameter of the back. I even have two models from the same company which often (but not always) use 0.5mm different sizes for the same key.
3. The alignment of keys can sometimes make a small difference e.g. a key arm too long or too short causing the correct size of bladder pad hit the outside rim, requiring 0.5mm smaller.
So... there is no definite list, but usually it's what Steve wrote. The Ab/Eb pad is either 14.5mm or 15mm, it's more of a "tweener". The top left hand ring key pad is either 9.0mm or 8.5mm usually. If you are ordering a set by specifying sizes it's definitely worth it ordering both options for those keys. A few extra pads isn't a big expense anyway compared with the hassle of later reordering.
Re the thickness, "thinner" has to be in relation to something. R13 usually uses "average" thickness which is about 3.0mm. I remember being surprised occasionally when this didn't work on seemingly unaltered ones. Sometimes different key require different thicknesses too (but usually not beyond some alignment of the keys). The thing with bladder pads is that often "thinner" just means the back is thinner, to fit shallower key cups. If the felt area is too thick that won't make any difference. Best to check current felt thickness (i.e. the widest part, excluding the back) and check with whoever you are ordering from what thickness this part of their pads is. Or just take the chance because most "regular" pads work fine with R13.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-20 16:13
Pisoni list the quantities, diameters and thicknesses of their pad sets, so see if this is applicable to you. Click on where it says 'Composition' for that info.
If you do use a cork pad in the speaker key, then it'll be around 8.7mm (unless the 9mm ones I have are a bit on the wide side).
<http://www.musiccenter.it/music_tipo_mute.asp?strum=32&CatDes=Pad+Sets+for+Bb+Clarinet&Marca=BB+CLARINET&IDMarca=&IDArt=16&compos=31840&MarcaStrum=BUFFET CRAMPON>
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2018-03-20 16:14)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-20 16:33
Attachment: padcup.png (5k)
More importantly, how thick is the sidewall on Buffet skin pads? That's the determining factor in them fitting well or not fitting well.
See attachment
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-26 21:17
I'm about to completely strip down a mid '80s RC Prestige Bb, so I can measure all the pad cups (both inside and outer diameters) and put my findings here if that's any use.
It's one that's been patched up over time and may still have some original pads on it, so I'll measure the thickness of them if I find any.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2018-03-26 21:57
I usually use 9.5 mm on top joint with a 9.0 mm in the F# key cup for bladder pads. 2X11.5 mm, 1X15.0 mm, and 3X16.5 mm in the bottom for bladder as well.
jbulter
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-03-27 02:58
Pad cup diameters - outer/inner (quantity - keys) in millimetres:
9.5/8.4 (1 - LH1 ring key open G vent)
10/8.7 (10 - all other top joint keys)
12.5/11.2 (2 - RH ring key C/G vent, RH3 B/F# 'sliver' key)
15/14.2 (1 - RH Ab/Eb key)
17/15.8 (3 - RH F#/C#, F/C, E/B keys)
Silver plated keywork, standard 17/18 keys, 6 ring pro/prestige model Buffet Bb/A clarinets.
Seems the best thickness of the felt (for stepped skin pads) or the thickness of the set (the sidewall showing around the pad cup for cork, leather or synthetic pads when the pad cup is sitting parallel to the tonehole) is around 1.2-1.4mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-04-22 22:29
And for the actual sizes of the pads, I just measured some from a fairly recent RC which should be the same sizes for other model Buffets.
Diameter x Thickness (x Quantity) - key(s)
9mm x 3mm cork* (x1) - speaker key
9.5mm x 3mm skin (x1) - LH1 ring key
10mm x 3mm skin (x9) - all other top joint keys
12.5mm x 3mm skin (x2) - RH ring keys and B/F# sliver key
15.5mm x 3mm skin (x1) - Ab/Eb key
17mm x 3mm skin (x3) - F/C, F#/C# and E/B keys
* You'll have to prepare and shape the cork pad accordingly.
Still stressing while there are always 3mm thick pads readily available in those sizes, the critical aspect is the thickness of the felt disc and Buffets require the felt to be 1.2mm thick maximum for the smaller pads and up to 1.3mm thick maximum for the largest. Most skin pads available from most suppliers have a felt disc of around 1.5mm+ which is too thick for Buffets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2018-04-23 01:45)
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2018-04-22 23:38
I second Chris and Clarnibass about the felt thickness.
I used Music Medic pads. The ones I still have measure 3mm overall, but I may have used “thin” 2.5mm pads. At any rate, they fit like thinner pads because the felt is very thin and well formed.
I tried Prestini 2.7mm, one of Ferree’s models, and a third brand, and all of them were impossible to install, unless you fit the felt entirely inside the pad cup.
- Matthew Simington
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