 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-12 16:19
Which instruments, in general, are thought to be some of the better instruments when it comes to Alto Clarinets?
I most often hear nice things said about Selmer (Model 9's are mentioned) & Leblanc professional models, in particular some of the older ones circa middle 1950's to 1965 (both in wood --- although I have no prejudice).
Any ideas of market value (range) prices for these & other used Alto Clarinet?
[[ I have done a fair amount of research on my own, but find that there are not a lot of listings or availability ]]
Thanks.
mw
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Author: Joseph O'Kelly
Date: 2001-06-12 18:01
I have not tried out many different models of alto clarinets but out of the ones I have tried I like my LeBlanc on loan from my high school. It blows well and is very versitile. I have no trouble making a nice classical sound from it nor a lively, vibrato jazzy sound or anything inbetween. I have seen models such as this one go on E-Bay for as low as $300 in pretty good repair. Quite a steal for a wood horn of this quality.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-06-12 18:15
MW -
I asked Kalmen Opperman about desirable alto models recently. He said that altos from any of the top makers (Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha) were good. If he could pick what to get hold of, he said to go with Selmers from the '50s and '60s, such as the Series 9.
Particularly if you buy on eBay, you absolutely just get a return option, since almost all altos will come out of schools, where they have often been severly abused. (I got an ex-school Selmer Eb contra last year on eBay that had to be extensively rebuilt, but contras are rare enough that it was worth the trouble. Altos aren't.)
Leblanc quality control has not what it should be for the last several years, but older instruments should be OK. I tried a really fine newish Buffet about a year ago - elegant, light keywork, played like a Bb.
Make sure any instrument you get has a low Eb, not because the note is used, but because the bell note is almost always bad, and the extra key permits a good E/B. Also, make sure that the instrument you get has a double register key mechanism that switches when you raise or lower your right ring finger.
Mouthpieces are a problem. Quality control is low, and Selmer's machinery in particular has gotten badly out of adjustment. Total sales are so low that they can't recover their cost to fix things, and so many alto players are the "etc." people who can't make it even on the 3rd Bb part that nobody seems to care. Just about the only solution is to get a Selmer C* and send it to Everett Matson to be made playable, or perhaps to get a mouthpiece from one of the custom makers.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-12 21:18
MW, I'm one of those that Ken Shaw dismisses as one of the "....many alto players are the "etc." people who can't make it even on the 3rd Bb part that nobody seems to care." He's right about the mouthpieces, at least, and I sent two to Dave S.... for a refacing so that they were playable. Let's face it,. some of us LIKE the lower register clarinets. I've even got Dave S... refurbishing a Bass for me, but I still love my alto (an older composition Buescher).
Bob A
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-12 21:42
Ken, Joseph & Bob --- thanks for the feedback.
I have my eye on a Leblanc late-1950ish pro model. I spoke with Clark Fobes about that era. He was quite positive about a Leblanc Alto pro model he had picked up recently, & it was right there, timeframe-wise. On the other hand, I always hear good things about Selmer, Paris - Series 9 Eb & Bass Clarinets. Ran into somebone who just finished refurbishing a Alto Series 9 and they were *QUITE* pleased.
I have a Vandy B44, Selmer Table C* & a Bay waiting in the wings, given to me by a friend.
Clarke Fobes, Chris Hill & others speak very highly of Matsen's facing work!
Best,
mw
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-06-12 23:25
Mark,
Some of the older Noblets aren't bad players either, especially those with a serial number of 4XXX to about 10XXX. These have an adjustable tuning neck. Just be careful, as I know you always are.
John
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-13 01:28
Thanks, John. The Leblanc pro model is $300, with a right to return if I am unhappy for any reason. No cracks or wood damage, supposedly 100% on wood and the Bell & Neck are supposed to be "pristine" If it _just_ plays, I fail to see how I could go too far wrong.
Best,
mw
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Author: Sue B
Date: 2001-06-13 13:01
Please don't pick on us lowly 3rd Bb clarinet players or those who choose to play Alto clarinets.
I'm just getting back into playing after over 20 years off and at this stage for me the 3rd part is challenging enough.
Also, WE ALL HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE and there are young folks that follow these threads as well and may not be as accomplished as some of the more experienced players here.
We should all aspire to play whatever part we play with excellence.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-06-13 17:35
I only have two data points to offer: I recently restored a Leblanc wood alto clarinet for a friend of mine, and despite my best efforts (tone hole undercutting, etc.) it was still a mediocre instrument after overhaul (somewhat fuzzy sound, so-so intonation). I even more recently bought an old Kohlert wood alto for myself, and even before doing any work on it, it is clearly a very nice-playing horn, with decent soprano-like sound in the clarion register and "baby bass" sound in the chalumeau. So all I can say is, try everything you can, regardless of brand or model, until you find one you like. And, as with all clarinets, the mouthpiece is the more important factor --- get a really good mouthpiece first, before you try out instruments.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-06-13 21:50
Bob and Sue -
I didn't mean to run down alto players. If you like the instrument, there's every reason to play it.
All I was trying to say was that in high school bands, where most of the eBay altos come from, the instruments are often abused by not-very-good players who were forced to play alto and who often blame themselves rather than a bad instrument for sounding bad.
Therefore, you need to be careful in buying a used alto, not because you're a poor player, but because you're a serious player, who wants to play well on an instrument that plays well.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-06-13 22:07
A fine report and evaluation, Dave, very similar to what I've been trying to "word" for here. I had a good LeB alto which [to me] had more volume-capability [with same mp] as my Selmer alto, which I now prefer, as it seems closer to the "Basset Horn" character [due to smaller bore?] [and has nearly it's range] . Other altos I have played briefly, Conn, Buescher, Gerard [Fr] just weren't as good, to me. I infrequently need to play mine, comm. band/cl choir/transposed viola, fr horn etc parts in church orchs. Am hoping our "Mozart" trio can play some Divertimentos for 3 B H's on altos. Interesting thread, Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-06-14 15:44
Don, we have now have 3 active clarinetists & a 4th who will play if we twist her arm --- all under 1 roof! YES, I would like to build a little choir. Mozart would be wonderful. We have been playing some duets & a couple of Trios ... I'd like to see us with 2 sopranos, 1 bass cl & the (new addition) alto!
Best,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-06-15 21:30
I don't know about the comment about the "3rd chair players who can't make it on Bb," but I am a 1st chair Bb soprano player who also does some solo work and I played alto clarinet for about 6 years in school in addition to the Bb just because I wanted to. I happened to like the mellow tone it had. I don't play one anymore because I've spent the last numerous years working on my soprano and trying to keep up the first part, but it's a bad rap to judge someone who wants to play alto as someone who "can't cut it" anywhere else in the section.
Oh, my instrument was a Leblanc Noblet and was a pretty good one--of course the school was new and so was the instrument.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-06-15 23:07
Brenda -
Again, I wasn't knocking alto clarinet or alto clarinet players. In my experience, though, at least in school bands, where most used altos come from, the best players are in the 1st Bb section. Some schools "salt" the other sections with good players, but for the most part, those on alto clarinet are far from the best clarinetists. I say this as a fact, and not to knock alto players. Certainly there are some good players who choose to play alto, but that's just not what happens most of the time.
Certainly when you buy an alto clarinet, you have to take into account that the instrument may have been treated roughly. Certainly very few band players buy an alto clarinet. They have the instrument supplied to them, and a school-owned instrument is usually used until it is badly worn.
When I was in the West Point Band, I got moved to contra and several other people got moved to alto and bass clarinet. Everybody in that band could flat-out play, and we played the low clarinets quite well. However, only one player saw himself primarily as a bass clarinet player. The rest of us were unhappy about being, as we saw it, denied the chance to play the best instrument.
In the end, it turned out that contra is my natural instrument - the one that nearly plays itself for me - and if I were in a clarinet choir, I'd almost certainly pick contra to play. I've even bought an Eb and a BBb of my own. Alto clarinet can be a wonderful instrument, and if you love the mellow tone, there's every reason to play it, and no reason not to. I really was talking about something else entirely.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-16 14:31
Hey Ken, I've learned that crow when fixed well can edible. Maybe it's my hearing loss in the higher registers that makes the alto sound good to me. I've even gottten a Bass that Dave S... is working on.
Bob A
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