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 Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Nzb2018 
Date:   2018-03-09 06:24

As I am about to enter college as a Clarinet Performance Major, I am looking to upgrade my rovner ligature (used for marching band and concert band and practically about to fall apart) to something a bit more high quality. I have read extensively about many ligatures and have tried a Silverstein Estro and Cryo 4, and I have narrowed my search between a Brushed Satin Ishimori or a Silverstein Estro. I am wondering if the Silverstein ($280) is worth $100 more than the Ishimori ($180)?

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: dorjepismo 2017
Date:   2018-03-09 06:57

A commercial product is worth what people will pay for it and not return it for a refund. Haven't tried an Ishimori, but I play an Estro and like it a lot. Before that, I used string, though. Most ligatures have people who really like them, so I'm not saying what I don't like, but the Estro helps get a nice centered sound and an even tone over the range. So it's definitely worth it to me.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: GenEric 
Date:   2018-03-09 07:34

Tried my friends Ishimori. I really enjoyed the core and projection it had. It was totally different from the rovner I would use. Although i would get one, I'm too afraid I would bend my ligature or create scratches on my mouthpiece.



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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: ClarinetRobt 
Date:   2018-03-09 08:44

Admittedly I haven’t tried a Silverstein in years. I did like them.
But I’ve had great luck with the silver ishimori...great projection and core. If I need something mellower, I use my rose gold coated ishimori. I get all the great response of the silver, with some of the upper harmonics cut out. Ie, it’s a darker sounding ligature.
Not cheap, but they wear like iron.

~Robert L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage, Lig: Ishimori, Reed: Aria 4, Legere Euro Signature 3.75, Horns: Uebel Superior, Ridenour Lyrique

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2018-03-09 13:23

Consult with your about to be teacher.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Mark Charette 2017
Date:   2018-03-09 18:26

If have tried them and you have to wonder then it isn't.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Shaun L 
Date:   2018-03-09 19:09

I haven't tried an Ishimori before, but I've tried a load of other ligatures, including a handful of different silversteins. The Lig that I settled on was a Rovner Versa without an insert with the flaps folded over the metal contact points. $70 lig when I got mine and nothing else felt more comfortable. And especially not at 4x the price for the Silverstein.

My personal experience aside, choose the one you HAVE played that you liked the most. I couldn't fathom spending $300 on a lig without even having played it.

Edited for clarity

Backun Protege Coco/Gold
Selmer S10A
D'Addario X0
MoBa barrel

Buffet 1193 C
Vandoren B44

Post Edited (2018-03-09 19:12)

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2018-03-09 19:25

Ishimoris (like the BG Duo and the French Ligaphone ligatures) grip the reed snugly to the mouthpiece, so if you are switching between A and Bb clarinets, they are likely to stay on. Silversteins are a bit more likely to slip off. Ishimoris (as Robert suggested) also will probably have a longer playing life. Beyond those two factors of security and longevity, is your personal judgment of which ligature gives the best sound and response for your playing needs.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: dorjepismo 2017
Date:   2018-03-09 20:05

Definitely true that you wouldn't want to switch just the mouthpiece from one horn to another in a hurry with a Silverstein, unless the cork wasn't very tight. Fortunately, some makes use the same barrels on A and Bb.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: RBlack 
Date:   2018-03-09 21:39

I would strongly suggest waiting until you know what your teacher's preferences will be before spending that much money. When I started school, it turned out my teacher had a whole theory about what makes a good ligature, and strong opinions about what some of the best ones are. (Peter Springs for what it's worth. About $100 currently I believe.)
For your question though, I know many fantastic players who play both Silverstein and Ishimori. Either would likely be a great product that would last you a long time.
I own a Silverstein Cryo that I use when I have to switch quickly from Bb/A, because my Spriggs does not well. I like it, but I'm not sure I should have payed quite as much for it as I did. Both my Spriggs and Silverstein are only a few % better than a $20 Rico H or Bonade lig, for what it's worth.

Robin

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2018-03-10 00:42

Silverstein has a new do-dad that can be attached to their ligatures to help with or perhaps elminate the slippage issue when changing instruments. I have one but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: ClarinetRobt 
Date:   2018-03-10 00:45

Post a pic of the do-dad please. Like to check that out.

~Robert L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage, Lig: Ishimori, Reed: Aria 4, Legere Euro Signature 3.75, Horns: Uebel Superior, Ridenour Lyrique

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: zhangray4 
Date:   2018-03-10 01:03

This is what nellsonic was referring to, I believe:

https://www.silversteinworks.com/product/antislip-pad/

-- Ray Zhang

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: SonicManEXE 
Date:   2018-03-10 01:33

I have not tried an Ishimori or a Silverstein, but I used a Rovner Dark in high school and switched to a Versa X a year ago, and I absolutely love it. There's no particular reason to get away from Rovner except for personal preference.

However, if you've been enjoying your Rovner and do want to try something else, I would imagine the Ishimori would be more in line of what's comfortable to you. Still, it's all up to personal preference, what your future professor thinks, etc.



Jared
Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa, FL

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Ed 
Date:   2018-03-10 04:38

I agree that I would be sure to try anything before buying, especially at those prices. It is not as if you are buying a $20 ligature.

Regarding the pad- as they indicate on the site, adding a pad, mouthpiece patch, cork or other, can significantly change response and resonance.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2018-03-10 04:51

I agree with Robin Black that the added expense of a high end ligature is not matched by proportional increases in quality. Silversteins and the upper level Ishimori models may cost three times as much as Spriggs but they are not three times better. Nor do the "best" players always play the most expensive ligatures. Julian Bliss and Ricardo Morales, for example, have recently been playing BG Duo ligatures that cost maybe $150 at most, though, if they chose to, they could be playing $1200 Silversteins. Martin Frost seems to be using a very moderately priced Rovner or something very like it. And if you look carefully, the list could be extended. Some excellent symphony players still prefer Bonades or Vandoren Optimums or M/0 ligatures-(Oliver Patey in the Concertgebow uses a Vandoren M/O)--pretty far from the high end. There are great players using exclusive limited production Silversteins or rare Momos from Japan, and others playing ligatures most students can easily find and afford. The final word is to get something that works and practice, practice, and practice some more. And then only change if you have some very definite reason to do so.



Post Edited (2018-03-10 17:50)

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Ed 
Date:   2018-03-10 07:17

Stanley Drucker always played what looked like a basic stock ligature.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Caihlen 
Date:   2018-03-10 07:52

Tom Ridenour plays a Rovner...

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: dorjepismo 2017
Date:   2018-03-10 09:06

Ed, Drucker was one of those who would sound great with most any setup. Wish I were like Drucker, but . . . Nellsonic, one of the things Silverstein says is that if you take the rubber feet off the legs that connect with the mouthpiece, it sounds better, because there's a direct acoustic connection between the chunk of metal and the mouthpiece. To some extent, I think that's plausible, and it feels like that to me when I compare an Original to an Estro. The main difference between the Original and Cryo4, and the Estro is that the metal bars on the Estro are in direct contact with the mouthpiece. So, now there's a rubber pad that sits in-between the metal and the mouthpiece, so that it doesn't slip when you change instruments. I mean, you can't have it both ways. Silversteins just aren't ideal if you swap the mouthpiece instead of the barrel _and_ the mouthpiece.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2018-03-10 09:07

Well, a lot of German system clarinet players still use a $2 string as ligature.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: zhangray4 
Date:   2018-03-10 10:54

I borrow my friend's right thumb to hold down my reed. Absolutely no cost at all. Most of the time I just asked my best friend to do it since he knows me best, and he knows how I move when I play so he can be sure to follow my head jerks with his perfectly-timed side to side hand movements. Sometimes I ask a girl if I am looking for a brighter sound, since they generally have less fat and skin on their hands and fingers, resulting in better vibrations for the reed. But I would have to rehearse all my body movements with her so a sudden sway by me won't catch her off guard. So as you can see, not only is music a form of art, but music is also a type of dance.

-- Ray Zhang

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-03-10 11:29

I tried to design a ligature that would simulate a thumb- I was going to call it "the thumb ligature" but gave up. But your post gives me an idea, instead of "uber eats" we could have "uber thumb" and uber up someone to provide ligature services....

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Ed 
Date:   2018-03-10 17:38

Quote:

Ed, Drucker was one of those who would sound great with most any setup.


It is no different for most of us. We will sound the way we sound based on many factors. The equipment will have some effect, often changing the feel for the player more than overall sound.

More importantly, Drucker got used to what he played and made it work. His bigger concern was making music. You can watch the Ed Joffe interview where he discusses that.

I am not discounting the fact that equipment can change how we play to a degree or how the instrument feels to us. At the same time, it is easy to get drawn down that rabbit hole where that next piece of equipment will be "the one", or that a $$$ ligature/barrel/mouthpiece, etc must be better than a $ one. If one is to try something new it is a good idea to have an idea what result you are looking for or what issues you want to solve.

I am just saying, try to avoid getting sucked in by the hype. Find something that works for you and aim to make music.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: jonathan.wallaceadams 
Date:   2018-03-10 19:12

Bonade, BG, and Rovner are also good options. Spending more than $100 on something that holds the reed to your mouthpiece seems impractical.
Ishimori would be my choice out of the two, but limiting yourself to two brands because of the price tag seems shortsighted. An inverted Bonade, BG Super Rev or Tradition, or a Rovner Versa could work amazing for you.

Just an aspiring student.
Buffet Tradition
Mpc.: Hawkins "G", Barrel: Moba, Reeds: Reserve 3.5+

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2018-03-10 19:17

dorjepismo wrote:

> Ed, Drucker was one of those who would sound great with most
> any setup. Wish I were like Drucker, but . . .

But that isn't really the point. Would Drucker have sounded better on one of these ligatures than he did on whatever he was using? However good he sounded with his stock lig, would *he* have found Bonade or Rovner or Ishimori or Silverstien to feel and sound better? Since he could have afforded (still, I'm sure, can afford) to buy any equipment he wants, he must not have found any difference to be meaningful.

Whatever Morales and Bliss are playing, can anyone hear a difference in their playing from when they were using whatever they used before?

This is a matter of what the player feels far more than what the listener hears, especially in a real world performance context.

Karl

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: Caihlen 
Date:   2018-03-10 19:38

I have to agree with Karl. The ligature, (I use a Rovner or a string) is an extremely personal thing that may have something to do with how the artist attaches to the instrument as well as how the reed attaches to the mouthpiece.

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: jack 
Date:   2018-03-10 22:51

I have and very much like the Ishimora Silver and Silverstein. They are my first and second favorite ligs. But have to say that the Rovner Platinum 1R blows them away. The 1R is like a gift from heaven.
Combined with the new Backun CG Crystal Mouthpiece, it is the singularity! Mightily happy.



Post Edited (2018-03-10 22:59)

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 Re: Ishimori vs. Silverstein
Author: windplr 
Date:   2018-03-11 20:15

As a practical matter, the Ishimoris seem to be out of stock everywhere. And the resellers I have contacted have no idea when any more will arrive.

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