Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: zhangray4 
Date:   2017-12-12 23:56

Hi all, I'm sorry for starting another discussion even I just started one a few days ago. So I've always been having issues with tuning ever since I got my R13 about 2 years ago. Last lesson, the teacher whom I just started studying with over the summer decided to address the problem. As he is a Vandoren artist, he made me try some B40s, B40 lyres, and one BD5 he happened to have. None of them really suited me. The closest was the BD5, but it gave me a very airy sound. He tried to give me some shorter Moening barrels to try, but they none of them fit on my R13. I think I read somewhere on the Bboard that they don't fit the new Buffets?
Anyways...after realizing I was playing on a series 13 M30, he told me that was the problem. He said my flat open G and left thumb F would be fixed. Told me to try as many M30s that weren't series 13.

So I ordered some M30s off Amazon (since its so easy to return with them) and ordered a Selmer Concept as well. The Selmer Concept arrived yesterday. Although the tip opening was a bit smaller than the M30 theoretically, I immediately fell in love with the Selmer Concept. Some have said it was too stuffy and resistant, but for me I felt it was perfect. The M30 is too freeblowing for me. For the M30, my sound became very thin and spread if I use a softer reed and very airy if I use a harder reed. However, on the Concept, no matter what reed I used, the focus, centered tone was always there: never airy even at pp dynamic unless I went to extremely hard reeds. The only change in reed strengths on the Concept was the brightness of my sound. And the tuning problem was basically fixed! Still riding a little low on the left thumb F, but only by a little. The open G is fine now. Even the articulations are better.

So this is all really good, and I think this may be my new go-to mouthpiece. Even if it means I'll have try to talk it out with my teacher, since he wants me to use VD mouthpieces. I know I still need to spend more time with the mouthpiece to get used to it, but one issue I have with the Concept at the moment is that its a little harder to control. Sometimes when I attack the notes, there's that "crack" sound, not quite a squeak, if you know what I talk about. Any tips? Or is this a problem the Concept mouthpieces have?

Also what are all your opinions on the Concept/Focus?

-- Ray Zhang
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The point is not to take the world's opinion as a guiding star but to go one's way in life and working unerringly, neither depressed by failure nor seduced by applause."
-- Gustav Mahler

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: Klose 2017
Date:   2017-12-13 03:01

Maybe I am very wrong. I have a general feeling that most young players pay a bit too much attention to mouthpiece. Some of them even mistakenly hope that one magic mouthpiece can change everything. I like what Sabine Meyer once said: it is you, the player who makes the sound, not the material. Sticking to one decent mouthpiece (e.g., BD5, M30 and Concept you mentioned) and working on the sound and technique by practicing probably is something young players should do.

Well, I am sure mouthpiece makers are not happy to hear this...

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: zhangray4 
Date:   2017-12-13 04:26

I think both the material and the player's skill are important. Ask me to play on the mouthpiece that came with my instrument back in 6th grade and I wouldn't sound as good, although I wouldn't sound like a beginner (hopefully)  :)

In all honesty, the only reason I am looking for a new mouthpiece is because my teacher and I both think the current mouthpiece is making some notes come out too flat, especially my open G and left thumb F. I've been playing the clarinet for 6 years, have played on the same equipment for awhile, but by no means am I a pro. Yet this flatness is clearly an equipment thing, as no matter how much I try to lip it up, it doesn't work. if I try my hardest to lip it up, the notes are still 15 cents flat.

Now since I am getting a new mouthpiece, it would be nice to get a mouthpiece that would give me the sound I am looking for right out of the box, to solve not only my tuning issues but also my sound. Yes i suppose if I used the BD5 my teacher asked me to try I could make it work eventually. but why go for the BD5 when I can find another mouthpiece that is better at around the same cost? Even my teacher told me the B40s and the BD5 weren't fit for me.

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am a student, but that's my logic. And by the way, I am not the type of person to try new things all the time. I've used the M30 13 since I was a 7th grader, and I'm a 12th grade senior now.

-- Ray Zhang
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The point is not to take the world's opinion as a guiding star but to go one's way in life and working unerringly, neither depressed by failure nor seduced by applause."
-- Gustav Mahler

Post Edited (2017-12-13 04:29)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: ClarinetRobt 
Date:   2017-12-13 04:42

Ray...
You're an excellent player. I know it's hard to go against your teacher, but ultimately you have to do what works for you. No offense to the Vandoren fan boys, but they have never been my favorite...even when I was your age. They are inconsistent (looking at you too Buffet) and frankly there might be better options on the market for you.
Perhaps considering a more boutique (Bernardo, Graber, Fobes) option for your mouthpiece is a good strategy. That's what I did, for example, and Brad Behn de-mystified the mouthpiece hunt and helped me tremendously. Yes, I paid for his service, but worth every penny to avoid endless frustration. No you don't need to drop $800 for a mouthpiece, but maybe the $100 options aren't cutting it either. There has to me a middle ground somewhere.

~Robert L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage, Lig: Ishimori, Reed: Aria 4, Legere Euro Signature 3.75, Horns: Uebel Superior, Ridenour Lyrique

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-12-13 05:36

zhangray4 wrote:

> So this is all really good, and I think this may be my new
> go-to mouthpiece.

Until something else comes along. But that's completely OK. Mouthpieces aren't lifetime commitments. Who knows what will come along in the future (or even next week)?

> Even if it means I'll have try to talk it out
> with my teacher, since he wants me to use VD mouthpieces.

If he's interested in your best playing and not some kind of ulterior reward for spreading VD in the world, this ought not to be a problem.

> I know I still need to spend more time with the mouthpiece to get
> used to it, but one issue I have with the Concept at the moment
> is that its a little harder to control.

This may be something you can overcome by playing it, or it might not be. You need time with the mouthpiece to know for certain.

> Sometimes when I attack
> the notes, there's that "crack" sound, not quite a squeak, if
> you know what I talk about. Any tips?

This can be from taking too much reed in your mouth, especially if the reed is soft. Or it might be caused by some bad habit you've developed with your tongue. It isn't anything wrong with the mouthpiece itself (mouthpieces aren't deliberately designed to make that kind of sound), but may be something you're carrying over from your previous mouthpiece that you'll have to find and fix.

Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-12-13 06:01

zhangray4 wrote:

> I think both the material and the player's skill are important.

Advice like what Klose cites above from Sabine Meyer needs to be applied within reasonable limits. I don't think Sabine Meyer or anyone else with real experience would try to convince you that the stock mouthpiece on an entry level Yamaha or Buffet or Jupiter will give results as good as a well-designed, well made mouthpiece. But it is, I think, true that you can learn to get good, musical results on almost any well-designed, well made third-party mouthpiece. Much of the time what seems like a preference to an inexperienced student is more a result of habits built up while playing the mouthpiece he has become used to.

> In all honesty, the only reason I am looking for a new
> mouthpiece is because my teacher and I both think the current
> mouthpiece is making some notes come out too flat, especially
> my open G and left thumb F. I've been playing the clarinet for
> 6 years, have played on the same equipment for awhile, but by
> no means am I a pro. Yet this flatness is clearly an equipment
> thing, as no matter how much I try to lip it up, it doesn't
> work. if I try my hardest to lip it up, the notes are still 15
> cents flat.

Yes, it's an equipment problem, but if it's only throat F and G, one alternative solution you may not have considered is to have these two notes adjusted on the clarinet. How does high C6 tune? Bringing the pitch of G4 up is fairly easy and safe because there's no twelfth involved as a "normal" fingering (making the alternate open D6 fingering a little sharper might on most clarinets even be a positive bonus). F4 can be brought up, too, if it doesn't result in a C6 that's unmanageably sharp.

Not that this is necessarily preferable to buying a mouthpiece that tunes better in the throat area, but it *is* a different possible solution, depending on how much you like your current mouthpiece otherwise.

> Now since I am getting a new mouthpiece, it would be nice to
> get a mouthpiece that would give me the sound I am looking for
> right out of the box, to solve not only my tuning issues but
> also my sound.

But accept that your sound concept may - almost certainly will - change with experience as you continue to play.

Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2017-12-13 09:32

Funny, I've been telling people on this Board since the August ClarinetFest that the new Selmer was a very good mouthpiece. It can actually get even better Ray. It's the best commercial mouthpiece on the market right now. I still think it is stuffy though. But with some work it can be an amazing mouthpiece. It beats out anything on the market today at $100.

I've been toying with buying some and fixing them, then selling them for $145.

Maybe fix them for $50 and ship them back to the player and it includes shipping; so $45 for the labor.

Haven't made up my mind yet. If people are interested email me. They will play just like the old Chedeville's or very close to it, as very few Chedevilles played the exact same. That's how good they can be in the hands of the right person. In the hands of the wrong person, well throw them out. A hint, it's not in the facing, so don't have them refaced. If you do throw them out because they may become more resistant. So I have to keep the stuffiness/resistance to freeness and freedom a secret.

STEUER REEDS Importer played by Sabine Meyer

NEWLY DESIGNED "Vintage 1940 Cicero" Mouthpieces

Yamaha Artist




Post Edited (2017-12-13 09:37)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2017-12-13 10:07

Ray - I think your logic is sound here and you've received some excellent additional advice. Klose is correct that younger players these days often do themselves a disservice by bouncing around with their set-up choices every time some shiny bauble catches their eye, but I don't get the sense that you've fallen over that edge in terms of your expectations from a mouthpiece. There are many younger players who think that all the answers are quickly found in a box rather than slowly between the covers of an etude book. Don't be that person and you'll do fine.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Regarding the Selmer Concept Mouthpiece...
Author: zhangray4 
Date:   2017-12-13 11:10

These are all excellent advice. I don't think I indulge too much regarding equipment, as I focus more on what I can do to improve. Then I start to question the equipment and maybe ask my teacher for clarification.

It's good to know that someone else believes the Selmer Concept is good, especially when it is a pro mouthpiece maker like Bob. I remembered someone saying about the new Selmer mouthpieces being good, so I copped one off Amazon while purchasing the M30s. I guess it was Bob. Glad I bought one.

And my teacher says the tuning issue is most likely the mouthpiece as anything below the open G is flat, but especially the open G and F. And my throat tones are actually not really sharp without adding extra fingers, which is something you would not usually expect. So that's why I am looking for mouthpieces to solve the issue.

Thanks again for all the helpful replies!

-- Ray Zhang
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The point is not to take the world's opinion as a guiding star but to go one's way in life and working unerringly, neither depressed by failure nor seduced by applause."
-- Gustav Mahler

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org