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 Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Roxann 2017
Date:   2017-11-30 05:23

At the suggestion of a technician and my teacher, I purchased both a 65mm and a 66mm Moennig barrel. Neither of them will fit down all the way onto my top joint. Both of them leave about a 1/8" gap. The barrels slide down over the cork, but stop when they hit the wood. I live in a dry climate, but keep a humidifier in my case. I don't dare do any modifying to either of the barrels because I intend to return whichever one doesn't solve the problem of my clarinet playing flat in the lowest register. Any ideas on how to solve this issue?

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Exiawolf 
Date:   2017-11-30 06:26

Take a 600 grit piece of black wet and dry sandpaper and cut it into a bunch of about 1” by 2” rectangles and sand out the part of the barrel that slides on. Make sure you check every so often to make sure you’re not sanding too much.

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Roxann 2017
Date:   2017-11-30 06:47

The barrels are on trial so I cannot do anything to them.

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-11-30 08:07

Are they binding or is the socket on the barrel shorter than the tenon on the clarinet?

If the barrel is binding on the wood at the bottom of the tenon, there isn't much you can do - if you modify the barrel, you'll risk voiding the return policy. If you sand down the shoulder of the tenon, you'll risk making your current barrel unstable if you want to keep using it.

It the barrel is stopping because the end of the socket area has hit the top of the tenon - the barrel socket is shorter than the tenon - you'll get a decent idea of how it plays leaving everything just as it is. But the difference in socket and tenon length may mean that the effective length of the barrel when it's on the clarinet is longer than its measured length. The combination of the clarinet and the barrel would be shorter if the barrel would go all the way to the bottom of the tenon. You could play the barrel on the clarinet without modifying either, as long as the tuning is what you want. You could have the barrel's socket deepened (lengthened) once you've bought it so it would go all the way down, but the tuning might not be what you expected.

Karl

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Roxann 2017
Date:   2017-11-30 08:40

Hi Karl, I measured the sockets on each of my 3 mpc (the one I've used for several years as well as the 2 new ones) and they all measure right at 3/4". Initially, I'd thought that was the issue, but was proven wrong. I'm going to leave the new mpc in my clarinet case along with the clarinet for 2-3 days to see if anything changes. Perhaps once everything has been exposed to the same humidity level and temperature, things may change (I'm keeping my fingers crossed).

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: jdbassplayer 
Date:   2017-11-30 17:06

What model clarinet do you have? The new Buffet barrels only fit on Buffet "Professional" model clarinets and will stick out around an 1/8" if you try to use them on an E12f, Prodige, etc...

I learned this the hard way when I purchased a new Icon barrel for my Prodige.

-Jdbassplayer

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: BobW 
Date:   2017-11-30 19:48

you have to find out where is it binding

Is the length of the tenon greater then the depth of the socket? measure length of tenon and depth of a socket with a caliper

Is the tenon tapered ? measure the diameter with a caliper above and below the cork

Is the barrel socket tapered ? measure diameter just at the opening of the socket and at the bottom with a caliper

if barrel socket tapered then have to remove taper at bottom of socket with sandpaper or barrel reamer

if tenon tapered, area below cork larger then above, need to sand tenon

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-11-30 21:32

I think the bottom line is that any cause of the problem can be repaired, but probably not without altering either your clarinet or the barrels, which you don't own. You should let us know what the result is of leaving the instrument and barrel out in order to acclimate everything to the same humidity. I doubt that will help, but there's no way to know without trying it.

So, in the end, you probably will have to pick one, pay for it, and have it adjusted, or send both back and get a couple of different specimens to see it the problem is consistent with this model on your clarinet.

Have you tried a Chadash barrel? They're also meant for Buffets and use the Moennig taper, although I think he gets to it with a slightly different reaming process.

Karl



Post Edited (2017-12-01 01:40)

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Roxann 2017
Date:   2017-12-01 22:53

I left the two barrels in my case along with my clarinet and humidifier, hoping the problem would be resolved that way. No luck. I sent them back to the suppliers. Doggone it:(

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: LC007 
Date:   2017-12-01 23:24

Roxann, you have returned the barrels, so what I have to say is now moot, but you didn't give it enough time. It can take a good while for the components to stabilize in the same environment - a number of days/weeks. At least that has been my experience.

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2017-12-01 23:52

The difference between sockets and tenons fitting or not fitting is fractions of a millimetre. Even barrels of the same type made for the same model instrument won't always fit on other identical make/model instruments. If your own barrel is also a tight fit on the tenon, then you should have the tenon ring fitted so it fits easily. If a barrel isn't fitting on a tenon, then it's not likely to fit over time unless it gets fitted by a repairer. If anything, using a humidifier to increase humidity levels is only going to make things worse as the diameter of the tenon will increase and the inside diameter of the socket will get narrower.

Chris.

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2017-12-02 03:45

Chris P.,

That is a great reminder about the properties of wood and the effect of humidity. Nice logical explanation.

HRL

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: Roxann 2017
Date:   2017-12-02 16:50

Unfortunately, when you order several barrels and are trying them out, you only get 2-3 weeks to make a decision and return them if they don't work. If it takes that long for the wood to change in character, you find yourself in a real Catch 22 situation. If I shave down the tenon a minute fraction of an inch to accommodate the trial barrel, then my old barrel won't fit properly if I return the trial ones. What a pickle of a situation!

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 Re: Moennig Barrels won't slide on
Author: shmuelyosef 
Date:   2017-12-06 07:58

This is a great example of what is wrong with our expectations of barrels and intonation.

In reality, if a barrel were perfectly fitted (i.e. with the socket depths exactly matching the tenon lengths so that there is NO gap), then the operational length is simply the distance between the machined flats in the sockets...typically somewhere near 30mm for an average Bb clarinet. Only in this situation, is it useful to think of a barrel that is 1mm longer or shorter (as measured end-to-end as is the custom) as changing the intonation in a predictable manner. Remember, the intonation (like a mouthpiece) is determined as much by the volume as the length.

For example, a Gedanken experiment:
----Imagine that you have a manufacturer supplied barrel that has a 1mm gap in the joint socket end and has (typical of an R-13):
- a socket diameter of 21.7mm
- a bore diameter of 15.65 mm
1mm of bore length corresponds to about 0.19cc volume, while 1mm of socket length is about twice that...or 0.37mm. So with respect to bore volume, 1mm of bore extension (the inner part of the barrel) has half the effect compared to 1 mm of socket extension!

In my experience, most stock barrels have between 0.5mm and 1.0mm of 'gap' at the socket ends (adding the gap at both ends together). It is easy to test this with some 0.5mm tuning rings. Put them in both ends of a typical barrel and you will likely find that one or the other end will close up fully. You may also notice in this configuration that the barrel will now play a little sharp compared to no tuning ring...the total volume is now less.

Roxan, you should check this out to see if your stock system is 'fully closed', i.e. no gaps in the socket bottoms.

The flip side of this is that such a discontinuity in the bore can be a tuning feature...this is the fundamental concept around reverse taper barrels (like Moennig) where the design creates a discontinuity between the barrel and the upper joint that forces a 'node' in the harmonic structure of the bore. Similarly these gaps in the joints create (sometimes unintended) discontinuities in our bore, and can happen at the middle socket/tenon as well.

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