 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: SonicManEXE
Date: 2017-10-22 18:34
Hi all,
For the past 3-4 years I've been playing on a Vandoren 5RV for both marching band and concert band. Paired with 3.5 V21s I enjoy the volume I get from it on the marching field, but I don't really need that in the concert hall. In fact, I find that it's a little harder to articulate on it compared to some others that I've tried.
I would like to look into some alternatives for concert band that stay in the same sizing area as the 5RV: a little short, and relatively open. I've come to really enjoy that shape of mouthpiece and would like to still have a mpc that's flexible. My biggest concerns are my sound that I've developed and not having to huff and puff to play it. I've been meaning to give the BD5 a more fair shot than a five minute demo, but I also want to hear what you all think. Fobes, Grabner, whatever.
Thank you.
Jared
Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa, FL
Post Edited (2017-10-22 18:36)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-22 19:10
THe BD5 will have you huffing and buffing - probably. The tip opening is 1.20mm's. Your 5RV is much less open. So I can't recommend anything, but to find a place that will let you try out mouthpieces for about a week and not charge you for a restocking fee. A lot of stores do this. 20 to 40 percent.
I haven't played on Fobes mouthpieces, but I'm sure he is very good. I've had several Grabners come my way and they are consistent. But there are many other mouthpiece designers. I do not like the Vandoren M series, such as the M13's. I am not happy with the Zinner's as they play too dark and don't project. There is the new Selmer mouthpiece for about $100 that needs some adjustments, but it is excellent. I think it is the best mouthpiece on the market if you have it adjusted. If you don't it is stuffy so don't buy it. The bores on the Rico mouthpieces are too small so a lot of notes will play out of tune. I've played on the Behns, very good. Nice man too.
Since you are breathing hard, look for a tip opening of around 1.05mm with a 3 1/2 reed. Email me if you need more direction on mouthpiece tip opening and facing lengths. It gets complicated real fast. For example a tip opening of 1.05 might fit you well, but if the rails are too wide you will suffer and your sound will be stuffy. You will hate the mouthpiece. Hope this helps. So take your time.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-10-22 19:15)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-10-22 19:38
Maybe the Selmer Focus? That has a tip opening of 1.05mm?
Or one of Bob's mouthpieces, they're excellent
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gatto
Date: 2017-10-22 22:48
I would give the BD5 a try. I like it very much, using V.12's 3.0 to 3.5.
The specs given by Vandoren themselves is: RV5 has tip opening 106.5, the BD5 113.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-10-22 23:02
gatto you are actually right, somehow I thought the BD5 was much more open. But it is 113 mm. Previously I wasn't sure about giving it a try, but now I'm gonna try it for sure. Heard some nice reviews on the BD5, and 113 is quite perfect for me.
Thanks for clarifying!
-- Ray Zhang
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2017-10-22 23:33
Well, the BD5 is quite a different mouthpiece compared to the 5RV. I would not go into that direction unless you want a completely different sound and resistance.
You could try some other new 5RV or 5RV Lyra mouthpieces. Chances are that one of them plays easier than your current one. And keep in mind: the 5RV was originally designed for concert hall and should be easy to control.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-10-23 02:13
The 5RV (also known as the 2RV in France) was designed to give a very vibrant core tone in the French tradition of bright colorful sounds with lots of overtones. The 5RV was the overwhelming choice of French classical players in orchestras and chamber music as well as concert bands in the 1950s and 60s. People like Michel Portal and Andre Boutard played 5RVs.
The BD5 is Vandoren's 21st century answer to the very dark covered sound of the Nick Kuckmeier Austrian mouthpieces. It is less bright and edgy and rather more "hollow" sounding than the 5RV. Both can sound very good but in very different ways. The 5RV projects almost by default, effortlessly, but it can take some finesse and experience (as well as the right reed, ligature mix) to get it to blend well. The BD5 almost by default blends very well but can require just the right voicing and matched accessories to project and stand out from the ensemble.
Same animal, two different breeds. Probably need two different kinds of "leashes" to walk them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-23 08:10
Thank you Ray for your kind words!
Hmmm, the BD5 I have is dead on at 1.20mm. Maybe they aren't accurate. 1.13 is still pretty open. A lot of the Vandoren M series mouthpieces were not accurate, so it kind of makes sense. You could try 15 to 20 M13's and finding 2 that play the same is often hard to match. I guess the quality control suffers.
Yes the Selmer Focus needs some rail work, but it has great hopes. If you don't have this work done don't buy the mouthpiece. It will play very stuffy. I don't want to work on them because I have my own great line of mouthpieces.
Maybe Selmer should call me. This is a huge hint to Selmer. How to turn their stinky Focus mouthpieces into a great mouthpiece in 15 minutes or less, before they discontinue this line of mouthpieces, because of a lack of sales. Here is your chance Selmer.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-10-23 17:51
The VD M13-lyre plays well ... but intonation is not the best for me ... something similar with better tuning ... I use one, but looking for improvements ...
If you have about twice as much to spend, the Fobes or Behn products should be outstanding. These guys are totally committed to quality and honesty.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NBeaty
Date: 2017-10-23 23:10
If you're wanting to stick with Vandoren non-13 series mouthpieces and would prefer not to blow your brains out, I would recommend trying the M15 traditional. A closer tip opening and relatively long facing will make the thicker cut reeds not feel quite so beefy/resistant.
The idea that you need a big tip opening to get a big sound is just idiotic. Increasing the tip opening just increases the distance the reed has to travel to get to the mouthpiece as it vibrates and thus increases resistance. A certain distance is necessary for a working resistance depending on reed choice and embouchure style, but the benefits from increasing that opening begin to have diminishing returns pretty quickly as you get closer to 1.10mm and beyond.
Give the D'adario X0 and X5 a try. They are better material than Vandoren and I would argue also a better design. They're also about the same price ($100). You can usually find one on that auction site for a little less and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one site unseen. Their consistency in production is excellent.
The Selmer mouthpieces can be good after extensive refacing. They're expensive though when factoring in that you'll need to send it to someone to essentially finish it, it's not worth it unless you just have money to blow.
Beyond those, I would recommend Brad Behn's mouthpieces highly. While I have been refacing mouthpieces myself for the last 7 years to many satisfied and repeat customers, I've kept from going crazy switching mouthpieces constantly because I own half a dozen of Brad's Vintage and Signature pieces. There's simply no way for me to make a mouthpiece myself that is better in blank design and material. There's simply no one out there that has better material, designs, craftsmanship, and attention to detail.
If you're concerned about too much resistance, then I would also consider not using the thickest reeds available (V21's being just about the thickest blanks around). I would recommend trying the D'Adario reserve blue box or Vandoren blue box if you don't want to have to work so hard.
Finally, the BD5. Even if you got one that was factory intended specs (1.135mm), that's still unnecessarily open.
A setup should be efficient, comfortable, responsive, free-blowing, and have a beautiful sound. Increasing the tip opening increases resistance, requires more bottom lip/jaw pressure for even basic function, slows response, and usually just dulls the sound. On top of all that, the more open the tip- the harder reeds will feel.
In case you're wondering, my own primary mouthpiece (Behn Signature -6 prototype) is a 0.95mm tip opening and medium long (18mm) facing and I still play 3 and 3.5 reeds, depending on the brand/cut.
Post Edited (2017-10-23 23:23)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2017-10-24 09:06
I played the 2RV (5RV) for a long time, and it worked well in the 3.5-4.0 reed strength range for me. For some of my students it has served very well, especially more recently with the Legere Signature European Cut reed, which works REALLY well on this mouthpiece!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-25 23:09
I have to add something short. Eddie Daniels a top musician and a great jazz player was using a 1.10mm mouthpiece opening. This is not too open. About the same as what Robert Marcellus used.
Jazz players are known to want open mouthpieces. 1.20mm. But Eddie has a youtube message about how he went all the way down to a 1.03mm tip opening. This is considered to be a close tip opening. A lot of double lip players and of course single lip players really like this opening.
I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do here, but comfort is often so important. You don't have to have bleeding or very sore lips after 2 hours of playing. At 1.03 this is an area of when you can play for several hours, put more of the mouthpiece in your mouth and get more of the heart of the reeds vibrating. Producing a deeper, richer, warmer sound and no pinching in the upper register.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-10-25 23:09)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
