 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2017-10-17 08:29
It's been a while since I posted or read this bboard. I stopped playing a couple of years ago and even went so far as to sell off my equipment. I kept my Backun mouthpiece...just in case.
After playing many years with an international orchestra I settled on one standard clarinet, the Buffet R-13 green line. I have a big gig (which I tried to get out of but failed) coming in a few weeks and went to work finding a new Buffet R-13 green line. Not as easy as it sounds. Had to settle for the real wood.
Ordered from my favorite place and put it together for a test run and was almost instantly put off by the sound. The old familiar Buffet sound was gone. The wood didn't seem as rich as in times past. The bell didn't fit onto the bottom joint properly and back in the box it went. I went to see my local dealer and he told me the rules on Grenadilla wood had changed and Buffet no longer keeps its stash of Grenadilla as many years as they did in the past.
Am I the only one who has noticed this diminished sound quality? I used to play-test dozens a year for people when I was in that business. It's not like I don't know anything about the way they should sound. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with my absence from the regular gig scene. I still played a couple of times a year.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-10-17 09:30
I've also been a bit underwhelmed with the quality of some recent-manufacture R13's that I've seen lately. Even set up properly most of them don't compare well with the instruments of 20+ years ago. There are still good ones but they are becoming the exception rather than the rule. The Greenline instruments seem to be more consistent.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-10-17 17:20
You shouldn't have problems with finding a greenline R13 ... I played several and bought one back in March of this year ... I really like it and alternate it with a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas and Yamaha YCL-650 ...
I think the greenline instruments are more consistent than wood ... and the added density of the material seems to be a plus, in my opinion. We pay extra for well aged "heart wood" that is more dense than "normal" wood ... it seems to me that the greenline takes density to a whole new level.
I dropped the upper joint of my greenline R13 off a table from about 3 feet unto a hardwood floor ... could find no signs of damage and it plays perfectly. Pretty tough stuff, at least the latest formulation ...
Oh, and ditto on Buffet's workmanship and consistency ... I've had mine worked on several times in it's short life ... A Yamaha CSVR would be a better choice, if you want something well made (and better designed) and not too terribly dissimilar to the Buffet in playing qualities ...
Tom
Post Edited (2017-10-17 17:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: richard smith
Date: 2017-10-17 17:23
try many before buy, for all makes. Gigliotti and 0ther masters tried many
Post Edited (2017-10-17 22:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2017-10-17 19:37
I would buy a Greenline before the regular wooden any day..however....
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-10-18 00:11
At this year's ICA clarinet fest, I went looking for the old famous deep "ping" sound in the Buffet R13s but couldn't find it there. I did find that ringing quality in several Buffet R13 Prestige instruments that cost almost twice as much. All the Yamaha CSVRs I tried played and tuned very well, and I suspect that with the right barrel (perhaps a Behn or a Chadash) the sound wouldn't be too different from that of the older Buffet R13s. The Selmer Presence also had a nicely luminous quality that would probably be enhanced with a well-chosen barrel.
So I'm convinced that if I want that special sound that is in my memory, I'll have to get it from a Prestige R13, a Seles Presence, or a Yamaha CSVR. It doesn't reside in the regular R13 any more. (The Greenline R13s might be better. I haven't tried those for a long time).
Post Edited (2017-10-18 03:38)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2017-10-18 01:16
Thanks. I had a hard time finding a greenling because the stores around me were out of them and Woodwind and Brasswind was out of the nickel key version. I ordered a new Greenline with silver keys today and should have it tomorrow.
I've played clarinet 56 years, and as some oldtimers to this board know, I've played and owned almost every brand. The Prestige has a higher level of wood than the regular R-13. So, you would expect it to be more traditional Buffet sound.
A step up Yamaha is what I'm using until my new Buffet gets here. It's a nice little clarinet and I was surprised by it. I've heard the CSVR is an excellent choice as well, but again, everyone was out of them. I have a gig in a couple of weeks and need to get my equipment back up to speed.
I use Backun barrels and mouthpieces and used to have their bells as well. Don't have a bell right now, but still have the barrels and mouthpiece. They didn't help the grenadilla R-13 at all. The little Yamaha has a better sound.
The Greenlines are so great to use in every environment. It really helps with intonation and knowing I'll probably stay in tune throughout the night of play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-18 08:14
Yes that ping might be gone with the Buffet's. I am getting it after a bit of mouthpiece work and on the Yamaha CSVR's. More and more players are using the Yamaha's. There is an adjustment curve of a few months maybe less. The sound quality of a good mouthpiece matched with a CSVR will bring back the ping. Sadly I don't think the Zinner's are the right match at all. The Vandoren M series is also not a match. I like the Vandoren BD5's, but too open for me and the new Selmer mouthpieces. Look around. Take your time to find a good setup. Don't forget about looking at the Selmer clarinets. That ping can be found and you don't really have to spend a ton of money.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-10-18 09:54
I recently tried a wood Buffet Festival Bb and wow that one really has the ping. Was manufactured in 2011.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-10-18 10:28
I'm curious what Mr.Bernardo has to say about the "adjustment curve of a few months." Exactly what makes the CSVR different from the R13?
Post Edited (2017-10-18 10:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-18 13:35
The adjustments were getting the feel of the leather pads. This dulled the sound to me. I did do some pad changing. Also the pads felt a bit spongy. So on some of the keys on the upper joint I change the pads to cork pads. This helped get rid of that leather feel and dull sound from years of playing on cork pads. This also help with the sound. The soft leather to me was not the sound I was looking for and the harder cork pads fixed this. I would do this on Buffet clarinets as well.
With the lower register I had to bend a few left hand keys over a shade to match where the Buffet keys were. This was just a matter of taste.
Then a few weeks of scales to get the feel of the tension which I really prefer on the Yamaha's. I also had to adjust the height of a few keys, to fit my hand better, but I would do this on a Buffet as well. Lastly was the fullness of the sound. I changed the facing on my mouthpiece. This added richness to the Yamaha. During this adjustment time was enjoying the freedom of the upper register, above high C. I had to use more mouthpiece as a double lip player and this was such a wonderful thing to have happen. More of the reed vibrated and the sound was much warmer.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2017-10-18 19:32
I posted a min ago on the thread "what's wrong with Buffet" that I got the Greenline with silver keys a few min ago and it sounds wonderful. That rich, smooth Buffet sound...but the factory tuning barrel missed going onto the top joint by about 2mm. Slid right on and wouldn't go on any further. Thankfully, I use Backun and Muncy barrels and mine fit fine. But, it's not a good thing when an instrument costs over 4,000.00 and it doesn't fit together.
I was prepared to order the Yamaha CSVR if this one didn't work out, and still might if my trial period on this one produces disappointment. They are getting some rave reviews from a lot of professionals.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-10-19 03:57
Interesting. I do recall, the SEVR I played had trill keys that were soft and mushy unlike the ones on the other clarinets. That clears out something. Did not particularity like it but it was a respectable instrument.
I wanted to continue asking you about the CSG clarinet. I recall you talking about how German clarinets have a larger bore. Does the larger bore mean that the instrument will play flatter since the more takes up more area? Do they compensate this by making the barrel shorter? I'm really interested in getting the CSG and wanted to get some clarification.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-19 06:31
GenEric - The smaller barrels don't bother me. I think they are 58mm's or so? 58 1/2mm? You really need to try the horn. Does it play flatter? No! It is a very wonderful horn available in gold keys.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
