 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ben1948
Date: 2017-10-10 23:04
I'm playing somewhere in the intermediate level 3 years into beginning to play clarinet at age 66. I take regular lessons, and my teacher says I'd currently be a mid-chair player in an average high school orchestra. I play in a church orchestra, and a woodwind quartet/quintet with players from that orchestra--and I love it. I currently play with a Ridenour Lyrique Bb clarinet, with an M13 mouthpiece, all else stock.
I have tried different Legere reeds at different times to try to avoid the maddening inconsistency of cane reeds, but never liked them well enough to replace cane reeds until the Legere European Signature reeds came out. They were love at first sight for me. To my ear, they sound as good as cane reeds, they are amazingly consistent from reed to reed, and no worries about preparation.
The down side has been that I keep getting splits in the reed tips which negatively affects their sound, often within a week or two--which isn't good considering their cost, and the fact that many people talking about getting months of play out of a Legere reed. These Legeres are wider than previous Legeres and wider than cane reeds, and significantly overlap the facing from tip to heel. I am wondering if the pressure of the ligature might bow the reed upward a bit and be the reason for the splits? I also notice that the facing on the M13 is narrower than on some other mouthpieces. Should I get a mouthpiece with a wider facing? If so, is there a solid mouthpiece for an intermediate player which plays like the M13, which I like.
I asked this question of Legere and basically got blown off.
Ben Withers - began clarinet 2014 at age 66
benjamin.f.withers@gmail.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-10-10 23:54
Good for you, learning at 66! I've played for many years and I believe that cane reeds such as the VD V12 are remarkably consistent and long lasting, despite the complaining about them on this board. While I have played a little on Legere reeds and found Guy Legere to be a very charming person, I have no reason to try them seriously.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-10-11 00:12
ben1948 wrote:
> The down side has been that I keep getting splits in the reed
> tips which negatively affects their sound, often within a week
> or two--which isn't good considering their cost, and the fact
> that many people talking about getting months of play out of a
> Legere reed.
I'm one of those who has gotten well over a year from several of my Signature Euros. The only explanation I can think of for your splitting tips is that something inside your cap is coming into contact with the reed tips. Are the splits along the side rails where the reeds overhang or at random points across the tip?
My gut reaction is that the material is flexible enough not to split from ligature pressure down below the vamp. But if you're tightening your ligature really hard, you might back off to the point where the screw just grabs.
Another idea, if you are rotating more than one Légère, is to look at whatever you're storing them in to make sure they aren't contacting something as you insert them.
Speaking only for myself, I haven't had a Légère split in the year-and-a-half I've been using them.
Karl
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-10-11 02:30
I've been using Legere reeds for over a year, and have never had a splitting problem. I even sanded a reed with 120 grit without any damage. My guess is that Karl is right.
On your other post, I use an M30 for classical and jazz, and don't even change reeds. I believe that any mouthpiece which does not have a very closed facing could be used successfully for jazz.
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Author: ben1948
Date: 2017-10-11 07:37
Thanks for the helpful comments. Most of the time I take my clarinet apart after practicing/playing, so I don't use the caps. I do rotate 3 or 4 Legere reeds, keeping the ones not being used in a Vandoren 6 reed case, along with a couple of VD cane reeds. I certainly try to be careful handling the reeds. I probably do tighten the ligature pretty tight--it seems to me I have to tighten the ligature more for the Legeres than for cane reeds for them not to move some as I play. I'll try backing off that some. The splits have been in the middle 3/4 of the reed.
Ben Withers - began clarinet 2014 at age 66
benjamin.f.withers@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-10-11 10:49
ben1948 wrote:
> Most of the time I take my
> clarinet apart after practicing/playing, so I don't use the
> caps.
Unless this is a typo, I don't understand how not using the mouthpiece cap follows from taking the clarinet apart after playing it. Are you storing the mouthpiece with reed in the case without a cap (so the reed is exposed)? Or did you mean you *don't* take your clarinet apart after you play it?
Karl
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-10-11 13:13
I understand the statement of Ben. After practising I also take my clarinet apart, and this includes that I also separate the reed from the mouthpiece and put the reed into the reed case. I never store the reed together with the mouthpiece, so I do not need the cap for this. For me the only function of the cap is to use it when everything is ready for playing, so for protecting the reed during this time. I guess that Ben's workflow is similar to mine.
Is "everybody" else here storing the reed together with the mouthpiece, and not using a reed case? I would be surprised.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-10-11 22:02
I, and most (all?), of my co-players take the reed off the mp. The easiest way to store the cap is on the mp, so I do that.
The idea of storing a cane reed on the mp seems repulsive to me so, when I switched to Legere, I followed my habit of removing the reed.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-10-12 00:28
gatto wrote:
> I also separate the
> reed from the mouthpiece and put the reed into the reed case. I
> never store the reed together with the mouthpiece, so I do not
> need the cap for this. For me the only function of the cap is
> to use it when everything is ready for playing, so for
> protecting the reed during this time.
Another purpose for the cap, IMO an important one, is to protect the mouthpiece tip rail in the case. And one reason for storing a completely assembled mouthpiece, including reed, ligature and cap, is to keep the cap more securely in place. However, for those who are squeamish about leaving a damp reed on the mouthpiece for storage (it really does no harm and doesn't need to result in "stuff" growing on the reed), a dry reed that wasn't used during the day's practice can be used - maybe the next day's reed in a rotation.
But this is tangential. If the OP isn't storing the reed on the mouthpiece, the possibility is eliminated that the cap is the culprit during storage. It still might be damaging the reed during breaks when the cap is in place over it.
Karl
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Author: gregbaker112@gmail.com
Date: 2017-10-13 00:41
Ben,
I am leaning toward the ligature being the culprit. I suggest if you can, try a Klassik ligature from can Soren. Unfortunately they make a quick switch between clarinets near impossible. I also have not tried the Klassik with synthetic Reed's. There is a chance it may not hold the Reed's too well.
The Klassik is quite expensive for what it is. You might also try the Rovner leather line. Good luck.
Greg Baker
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-10-13 01:41
After breaking a couple of cane reeds years ago, I switched to a plastic Luyben. It works well for me on Legere reeds also.
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Author: LC007
Date: 2017-10-13 02:59
Hi Ben,
did you get in touch with Legere? I would call or email and explain your case. They may have some help for you or experience in this matter. It is after all a new product for them. I am in the process of returning a defective classic reed to them. There was some bruising and kink in the tip area so I imagine they will just send me a replacement. We'll see. But they did seem very pleasant and easy to deal with over the phone.
I also did buy a Euro cut Signature but I haven't tried it yet. I will keep an eye out for any anomalies and email you if I notice anything.
Luc
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-10-13 04:05
Here's my experience. I'm only Legere's in band/orchestra rehearsals and outdoor performances. When I'm practicing at home and performing in concerts, I use cane reeds.
So I realize that if I use the Rovner Versa Ligature (cloth material I think) along with my Legere reeds, it works perfectly. No splitting.
But when I switch to the Rovner Platinum Ligature (an all metal ligature that looks a little like the VD Optimum Ligature) the Legere reeds split at where the ligature is in contact with the reed. It looks like a white streak/cut about 1.5 inches in length.
So I stopped using the metal ligature and used the Rovner Versa (or Rovner Light) and they do not cause any splitting. No matter how hard I tighten them -- and I tighten them a lot to prevent slipping -- they do not split.
Yet for me, the splitting does not affect my sound. Only if the reed tip chips or breaks.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-10-13 04:55
I believe your Vandoren reed case is the problem. As legere reeds are thinner than cane reeds, in my experience, this case does not hold legere reeds very well. Initially, I felt my legere reeds are hold tightly enough in the case, but as the surface is quite slippery, they still can move around inside.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-10-13 06:16
I have the same concern as Klose too, now that the issue of the reed case is brought up. I simply put mine in the single Vandoren plastic reed holder (the ones you get out of the box). It slips around a little, but not enough to slip out of it.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: donald
Date: 2017-10-13 06:19
Are the "splits" you describe like... fractures IN the material of the reed, like a longitudinal crack or fracture (hard to describe).... but not necessarily what I'd describe as a "split" that comes from the tip. I've seen Legere reeds get these sort of "internal fractures" before... but never a split from the tip...
dn
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2017-10-14 02:52
I too use an M13 mouthpiece on my Bb & A clarinets and experience small splits in the tip of the reed which grow longer as time progresses. Assuming the reed is help tip up, the splits cluster on the right side. Additionally, I just noticed a split - 'mid-reed' - about 1/8" long and about an 1/8" down from the tip, (an internal fracture?). I've looked very carefully at the the tip of the mp for any irregularities - it's perfectly smooth and a straight edge laid across it shows no bumps, convexities or concavities.
Ever since I started using the European Signature - which I quite like - I just put the reed loosely back on the mouthpiece with a cap, after swabbing out.
After a while the split(s) become long enough to affect playing. They are expensive and the splitting is troublesome. Sorry, can't give any sort of hours-to-trash estimate.
Post Edited (2017-10-15 00:43)
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