 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: StevenWayne
Date: 2017-10-01 21:37
This is on the upper joint of an old R. Malerne wooden Standard. Tone holes look good, and I've worked at getting the pads level and seated properly against the tone holes, but it will not pass a suction test.
The lower joint was repadded with beautiful kangaroo pads, and they floated in and sealed perfectly, but I did not have those to fit the upper joint, so I tried the cork on that joint. Any tips to getting the cork to seal better? Or should I bite the bullet and order the kangaroo pads? Someone here told me that leather pads were more forgiving.
Thanks for input. I appreciate the advice I get here. Learning a lot.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2017-10-01 21:59
Here is what I do for cork pad installation:
1. Make sure the tone hole is level and without any nicks on the tone hole edge. There are tools available from Bohm that work very well for this process although a bit more than available from US manufacturers.
2. Make sure the cork pad surface is flat. I use a flat steel block and varying grits of flexible sandpaper. I usually start off with 23 micron and work my way upward to .5 micron. A few passes with each is all you need.
3. Some clarinet pad cups work better with a slight taper to the cup side of the cork pad. There are cork pad spinners available but I prefer to do this by hand using a emery board.
4. Be sure to use enough glue to float in the pad. I prefer George's glue for clarinet pads. Also, digressing, step 1 should really be make sure to use the correct thickness of cork pad for the instrument you're working on. I find that 9.0 in a .110 thickness works for me in the upper joint of the Buffet clarinets. I'm not sure about Malerne. Older Selmer's I usually use a 9.5 and have to "dome" the top of the cork pad a bit.
5. I use a leak light AND a feeler gauge to make sure the pad is level. The pad will almost float itself in if all the above steps have been performed on sprung keys. Apply heat and raise the key up and down a few times and check with the light a feeler gauge. Usually a very light touch with a pad slick is all that is necessary to get the cork pad level.
jbutler
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-10-01 22:12
A few of the pads are most likely not as level as they need to be. You need to make a feeler gauge. I like to use Mylar but you can also use plastic grocery bags. Make a thin strip roughly 3mm in width. What you want to do is put the strip between the pad and the tonehole and allow the key to close. You then pull the feeler gauge and feel for resistance. If there is no resistance it means the pad is not seated correctly and you need to re-level it. Once you check one spot on a pad you should move around the rest of the pad to make sure there is an even seat all around. Do this for every pad.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: richard smith
Date: 2017-10-01 23:50
put pad in cup. put key in place. next day, remove key. examine cork circular indentation. file cork smooth. put key back in place. next day remove key; etc ; etc until pad closes uniformly. may take several days, per pad. Did this procedure with my oboe also.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-10-02 00:02
richard smith wrote:
> put pad in cup. put key in place. next day, remove key. examine
> cork circular indentation. file cork smooth. put key back in
> place. next day remove key; etc ; etc until pad closes
> uniformly. may take several days, per pad. Did this procedure
> with my oboe also.
Kinda seems like a lot of unnecessary work considering floating the pads on glue already works perfectly well and takes minutes.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-10-02 00:16
I used basically the procedure given by jbutler but would add the following points
-choose or adjust the thickness of the cork pad so that when dry tested in the cup it sits as near evenly as possible on the tonehole seat
-I always domed the back of the pad (the amount depended on the shape of the inside of the key cup - a flat cup needs less than a conical cup)
This allows the pad to pivot any any direction with the minimal amount of glue to be used.
-use a special pad slick, the same size as the pad, to fit between the pad and the seat so that gentle pressure can be applied to the pad when floating it without creating a seating on the pad.
I made my pad slicks by grinding a variety of sizes out of used razor blade with thicknesses between 0.005 and 0.009 thou. these stay very flat and firm.
the slick thickness that works best is determined by the distance between the axle rod and the tonehole. The shorter the distance the thinner the slick.
As with all things the more experience you get then the easier it becomes to get it right quickly.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-10-02 00:22
jdbassplayer wrote:
"Kinda seems like a lot of unnecessary work considering floating the pads on glue already works perfectly well and takes minutes"
Yeah - that's far more work than there really needs to be.
The pads are usually the last major part of finishing or overhauling an instrument once everything else has been done. This is how I prep and install cork pads which is far less time consuming and once in, they're there for the long term.
Find the correct diameter cork pads for the pad cups. If they're too large, then sand them down to the correct diameter using a spinning disc to mount the pad on and sanding the sidewall until it fits the pad cup.
Grind the faces of all the cork pads down on several grades of abrasive (I use pumice blocks ground flat) from coarse to level them, medium to even out the surface and fine as a finishing one to get a perfect blemish free face. Discard any with imperfections in them which may end up on the tonehole impression - any either dead central or on the extreme edge can be used should you wish to provided they don't cause any problems.
Use a coarse emery to sand and dome the backs of the pads down to make them the correct thickness if they're all too thick - aim for an even amount of pad sidewall showing around the pad cup once the pads are in place.
Apply a suitable amount of molten shellac to the back of the pad and once cooled, check the face is still level by going over it with the fine abrasive. Depending on how much room you have when the necessary keys are on, you can either slip the pad into the pad cup, heat it and seat the pad, or lightly install the pad in a gently heated pad cup, install the key and further heat it and seat the pad.
Once all the prep is done, padding is often a reasonably quick process relatively speaking. You don't need to wedge them shut to make them seat - just level them using very light finger pressure to close them against their toneholes and check all around with a feeler gauge. Aim for them to be slightly lighter at the backs than the fronts instead of heavy at the back and light at the front (likewise with all pads) as this makes for a far more positive feel and for longevity.
Another way of seating pads which is more laborious is to install them into the pad cups with shellac, then grind the face down until they seat. But you'll be there for ages with keys going on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off until you get the pads to seat - only problem is if you encounter a hole or a hard lump in the pad, all that effort is undone and you'll have to start all over again.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2017-10-02 03:30
I install lots of cork pads. I put more time into preparing the tone hole than floating the pad. I use both a light and a feeler gage. I also like George's glue.
I think leather pads would be fine. Kangaroo skin is not necessary.
If you want continue with cork pads, I have only two additional pieces of advice.
1) Disable the spring and use very light pressure to seat the pad. I will turn flat springs 90 degrees to the side. If the pad doesn't move with very light pressure when you are seating it then you need more glue, a little more heat or the pad is too tight in the cup.
2) Start with only one key on the clarinet. You will have access all around the tone hole. Put plugs in the other tone holes and do your suction test. When that pad is good, you can move on, either doing all the keys one by one or leaving them on as you progress.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-10-02 09:54
I use tone hole reamers to sharpen each tone hole which allows better seating and extends the life of the pad. Ferrees Tools sells a great set made for clarinet specifically.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-10-02 15:21
"Ferrees Tools sells a great set made for clarinet specifically."
Is that the E197 Pad Seat Reamer set?
Thanks.
Tony F.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-10-02 16:12
Sharpening toneholes doesn't extend the life of pads - Buffet have razor sharp toneholes and they cut pads up like anything.
So you're best having a slight flat top to the bedplace crown to make them more pad friendly.
If you've levelled the toneholes and the crown is particularly flat, then you can countersink the inside edge with spherical reamers to narrow the thickness of the crown, but it does widen the overall diameter of it and that can bring the edge of the pad close to the tonehole, so in danger of the pad not covering if the pad cups don't line up well with the toneholes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-10-02 20:56
I forgot to mention that I only use cork and leather pads which no matter how sharp the tone hole is will not cut them. Bladder pads are a different story. E197 is correct.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-10-02 21:33
I think that less than perfect wood nowadays is why so many clarinets are coming with leather pads ... more forgiving.
One reason I bought a Greenline Buffet is that the tone holes should be cleaner, and can accommodate cork pads ...
Love cork pads!
Tom
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-10-03 05:28
I kinda do the Moenning way. Email me for directions.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-10-03 07:14
Having razor sharp tonehole crowns is pushing grenadilla to it's physical limits as making wood that thin will also make it very fragile, so bits can easily be chipped or break off them which is no good if you're using cork pads as they won't conform to any irregularities as well as leather or synthetic pads.
I've seen fairly new Buffets with leather pads where bits of grenadilla from the toneholes have stuck to them, so going around all the toneholes with thin superglue and levelling them as well as making the crown just that bit thicker will give them more durability.
There is absolutely no reason why toneholes have to be that sharp anyway - even the Buffet E12F clarinets have gone against that and have more German style tonehole bedplaces with a rounded edge to the crown instead of the usual hole punch-style one Buffet are still using because they can get away with it as they're Buffet, just as they can get away with using crappy wavy tenon slots just because they're Buffet and springing the F#/C# key in a crappy manner just because they're Buffet and no-one ever questions them.
Apart from myself that is. Just because they can stake their claim to have been there right at the start of the invention of the Boehm system clarinet, that doesn't mean they're above criticism and they can do what they like as there's a lot to be critical about.
There - that's the sacred cow slain.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2017-10-03 07:43)
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