 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-04 14:14
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Hello all,
Was wondering if anyone can provide any advice. I am looking to buy a 1982-1983 Buffet R13 full boehm system clarinet. The serial number is F222891. I can't seem to find any information about this particular model, can anyone assist. It appears to be in good condition. Please see photos attached. The seller is asking $1200US - is this a fair price. They state it is in playable condition, no cracks, good pads.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-04 18:41
'Playable condition' can mean anything depending on your viewpoint - I take that and phrases like 'recently serviced' or 'recently overhauled' with a massive pinch of salt as that means absolutely nothing as in many cases that may have been done some time within the last 20 years.
I may be sceptical, but more often than not instruments being sold with that blurb are best being stripped down and rebuilt with all new everything. It depends on how picky you are and I'm particularly picky when it comes to assessing other peoples' workmanship - if it's not to my standard, then it's straight onto my bench and completely stripped down and rebuilt without a second thought.
But if it is as playable as they say and it plays well for you, then I think you should go for it as these are rare beasts - a brand new full Boehm will probably cost at least three times the $1200 they're asking for this. But still factor in the cost of a full service or even a full overhaul should you feel the need for that.
Full Boehms will suffer if the ventings are less than adequate, so can be stuffy in the lower register if the main action ring keys are too close to their toneholes. If they have been repadded, more often than not the incorrect thickness pads have been used which only further compromises the venting and ring keys may be set too high so they don't sit parallel and at a comfortable height from the tonehole chimneys when held down. This is true on any clarinet, but Buffets use thin pads and some repairers overlook the finer details and bung any old pad in and don't adjust the ring keys to suit them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-04 18:45
I'm not trying to scare you off buying it - I'm more likely to encourage you to buying it, but do expect to have to pay out once you've bought it to have it set up properly so you can make the most of it and all the extra gadgets it has fitted as they're all there for reasons. In addition to your regular Boehm system fingerings, the extra keywork and mechanisms offer more options on top of them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-04 18:55
Thank you Chris,
I understand what you mean. This is the seller description:
"Vintage Buffet Crampon R-13 full Boehm Bb soprano professional level clarinet. The clarinet is ready to play. The wood is in excellent condition, free of cracks or damages. The pads are in good condition. It plays in tune up and down the scale with excellent tone and intonation. Full Boehm system, silver plated keywork, made of grenadilla wood, pitch- Bb, keyed to low Eb, fork Eb/Bb, alternate LH Ab/Eb lever, articulated C#G#. Matching serial numbers: F222891. Including hard case and A. Lelandais No.6 mouthpiece. No longer available today. Made in France in 1983."
I'm still mulling it over. Don't want to have to spend more to fix any issues.
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-04 18:58
Also, I believe the seller lists quite a few different vintage instruments on ebay, and they have returns allowed. So I'm guessing they have some restoration knowledge. They also said in a message to me:
"Professional specialist checked the clarinet the last week. All is ok. It works properly."
... whatever that means exactly
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-04 18:59
Never expect to buy a used clarinets without needing to have any work done on it - unless you're buying from a woodwind specialist where they will do all the necessary on used instruments (apart from any sold as seen), private sellers won't have that same level of guarantee if any. So always expect to spend more once you've bought anything used from a private seller.
Even when buying a brand new Buffet you should always expect to have to pay extra to have it properly set up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-04 19:04
Any cons with the early 80s R13 clarinets you know of? From what I've read it was not long after new ownership of buffet and things declined...?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-04 19:40
These should be much better made than more recent ones. I find far fewer issues on older Buffets (besides normal wear and tear) than I do with new ones.
I regularly work on a set of early-mid '80s RC Prestiges and they're still in top playing form apart from the plating wear and the Bb had cracked and been repaired early on in its playing life. The owner isn't planning on replacing them at any point.
I have a 1962 full Boehm Buffet and the top joint has split down the front and back. It has been pinned but I carbon fibre banded it to secure both halves together and it plays as well as any other clarinet. The toneholes are particularly small in the left hand notes - especially the E tonehole (the pad cup between LH fingers 1 and 2), so it's important the venting isn't too low as lower register E and C will suffer as a result.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2017-09-04 23:39
Nice clarinet! The F prefix indicates the European Continental pitch : A=442-444Hz. Does not need to be a problem though, but may be.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-05 03:15
If it does blow on the sharp side, then a Vandoren "13" series will help tame that. But it's much easier to flatten a (marginally) sharp instrument than to sharpen a flat instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-05 03:21
Yes Chris I agree, I recently bought a M13 profile 88 mouthpiece for my E12F and it brought the pitch down to the the point I hardly have to pull out now. Will wait and see how this one goes depending on the barrel it currently has I guess...
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-05 03:32
As for the low E tone hole (LH pad cup) that Chris mentioned, it appears there is an adjustment screw for height, so that should eliminate venting problems...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-05 04:03
Attachment: buffet_full_boehm.jpg (155k)
That adjusting screw regulates the closure of both the vent pads between the LH ring keys when LH2 is closed - the venting of the LH ring keys is still set by the venting of the RH ring keys.
On full Boehms, lowering LH finger 2 will lower the LH3 ring key as well. But when you play C or G (xxx|ooo), lifting LH finger 2 will allow the LH2 ring to rise along with the small vent key (which compensates for LH3 being closed) and the vent key will keep the E/B tonehole closed so Eb/Bb will issue directly from the LH2 tonehole chimney.
See attached photo of the two parts of the forked Eb/Bb mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-05 04:31
Ahh ha, I see, had to wrap my head around that one for a second, but makes sense, very clever. Thank you for the photo and the time it must have taken you to prepare it!?
Jason
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-07 13:51
So, I have bitten the 'buffet' and purchased it. I got a bonus of $120 discount from an ebay 10% coupon, so $1080 US total with free postage. Pretty good deal I reckon. Looking forward to receiving it and I will update you all on how it plays. Thanks you all for your assistance.
Jason.
Post Edited (2017-09-07 14:09)
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Author: Jason
Date: 2017-09-07 13:52
Also, it comes with a Lelandais No.6 mouthpiece. Anyone know much about these? Can't find any info on the net.
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