 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: klim
Date: 2017-09-01 20:09
Advice between YCL450 and Ridenour 576.
I played Bb clarinet all through grade school and high school and recently decided to take it up again after 50 years. I got an inexpensive Leblanc Normandy on ebay to test the waters, not knowing if I would like playing enough to continue. The mouthpiece was unplayable for me so I replaced it with an M13 Lyre and had the local shop vacuum test the horn and they replaced a few pads and tweaked some keys. The Normandy now plays well enough for me to know the appropriate body parts still work and I love playing and want to continue - but the experience could be much better - the keys sound like an old manual typewriter and pitch changes drastically throughout the registers. So, I want to upgrade to a good quality instrument with quiet keywork and reliable pitch. I'll be playing for myself, no aspirations of joining any groups.
After considerable research, much on this forum, I've narrowed my search to the YCL450 and the Ridenour 576. I've found that the Yamaha has a excellent reputation as a solid, reliable instrument. The 576 also has a good rep, especially the newer models, and the rebel in me likes the idea of the hard rubber body.
A new Lyrique 576 runs around $1000. A new YCL450 around $1300 (a bit rich for my budget) with several on ebay for $600 to $900 that are "gently used" and "very nice".
I'm aware of the cautions about buying used instruments without trying them out. But for me saving $400 is not peanuts. But then, say I get an $800 YCL450 that is actually good and spend another $100 having is checked out and tweaked if necessary, that's only $100 less than a new Lyrique.
Should I get the Lyrique, scrimp and save until I can spring for a new YCL450 or trust my luck and buy a used 450? Advise me, please.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-09-01 20:25
Not checked intonation between the 450 and my two Ridenour clarinets (Libertas and Speranza) ... but the Yamaha probably has more "weight" in the sound and feel and and the way it vibrates under the fingers ... might be mostly just the type of material, ... good blackwood is denser and heavier than hard rubber. The Ridenour instruments should have an overall warmer sound, but still project well with plenty of power ...
Both should be fantastic clarinets ... both designs are great ... only caveat is you have the worries of wood with the Yamaha ...
I've heard that the 450's design is from a professional model that Yamaha made a few years ago, although they don't advertise that story ...
As far as your decision ... I'd say a coin toss ...
You need to try both and then decide ...
Tom
Post Edited (2017-09-01 20:27)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-09-01 21:46
Owning both a Normandy and a Ridenour 576BC, I thought it worth bringing up that the two instruments are very different in terms of blowing resistance. The 576BC is a much more resistant instrument than the Normandy. If you're accustomed to putting a lot of air through the Normandy, the 576BC may seem as though there's a swab stuck in the bell by comparison.
On the other hand, if you find the Normandy to not be efficient with your particular level of air support, as your preference for the M13 Lyre mouthpiece may suggest, the 576BC would be much easier to fill up.
If you want the advantages of a hard rubber instrument along with the wide-open blow of the Normandy, you could really be a rebel and seek out a vintage Conn or Pan American hard rubber clarinet. The one I owned, a Pan Am 58N, was in near-mint condition and cost me all of $30 on eBay. Had it repadded for $150, and it turned out to be just the ticket for big-band playing. Food for thought...
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Author: klim
Date: 2017-09-01 22:10
How would the resistance of the YCL450 be compared to the 576?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-01 22:27
Man, I must be an oddball. All these horns feel about the same to me in resistance. Just a couple of weeks ago I played my Arioso, a 450, a 650, and an old Leblanc Dynamic H. To me there was no comparison in ease of play, Arioso hands down with the H as a moderately close 2nd. Resistance was not part of the equation, for me. Tuning of the Arioso blew away the 450. Last month at the Fest, my first time to ever blow on an R13, a couple of varieties- I was not impressed, but I can't say they felt all that different from what I was used to.
And then yesterday I get my 576BC, it's a clear winner over my Arioso that's supposed to be the same, I'm not really surprised. I just wish I'd sprung for the 576 years ago.
The 576 has the reputation that even people who don't initially like it- after a while nothing else will satisfy them. That could be good or bad. I think it's kind of funny.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-09-01 23:12)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-09-01 22:51
Stan, that's exactly how I feel about the 576BC. I found mine to be loathsome at first--I couldn't get any air through it and was routinely overpowered by my big band's overmanned trumpet section--but eventually found mouthpieces that really made it sing.
No clarinet I've ever played has the accurate tuning and even response of the 576BC. Once you get your setup all dialed in, it makes clarinet playing so easy.
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Author: klim
Date: 2017-09-01 23:18
What mouthpieces have you found to work best with the 576?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-01 23:32
For many years I played exclusively on Vandoren 2RV (= 5RV) and then 5RV Lyre, very similar. A few months ago I tried a Selmer HS** based on a claim I'd read that it plays particularly well in upper altissimo, and that's how it worked for me. A compromise in other respects (harder to control in lower ranges) but it's been a good change for me.
My old Legere Classic 2.25's and ATG'd Marca Superieure 2.5's I think were pretty soft and easy blowing on the 2RV/5RV. By comparison, my Legere European 2.5's may be more normal (comparable to other players) on the more open HS**. Not that I care that much, so long as it works for me, LOL. But if anyone reading this has better info, by all means correct me. This may be pertinent to the point at hand (blowing resistance of various clarinets) if my setup is abnormal in either direction.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-09-01 23:36
I play a Grabner K14e with my 576BC. It may not fit in your budget at $225.
Almost as good: The Pomarico Ruby Bright.
Not quite as good, but still delightful: The good ol' Vandoren B45.
The classic Brilhart Tonalin is another favorite of mine with the Ridenour.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-09-01 23:41
Yeah ... true ... give the Ridenour clarinets a couple of weeks and it's hard to go back to something else! ... I rotate various designs just because I can, and it's fun ... But I'd be surprised if the 450 is really MUCH worse, tuning wise, than the 576BC ... I like the higher tuning and more compact blowing of the Yamaha 650 and especially the Buffet R13 in the altissimo range, and that's why I often play them in concert bands, to dance around in the stratosphere ... my two Ridenour instruments play slightly flat above high D for my MP, reed and voicing. I will admit the the Ridenour clarinets have a MUCH nicer sound for high notes, warm and round. I guess you can't have everything ...
However, I have a tryout coming, and I may elect to play my Lyrique Libertas, due to the warmth, response and outstanding smoothness of response and there is not a great deal of altissimo playing for the audition material ...
For MP, I like the Reserve X0 and Pilgerstorfer Dolce reeds, #3.5 ... easy blowing.
Tom
Post Edited (2017-09-01 23:46)
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Author: klim
Date: 2017-09-02 01:54
How would the mouthpieces that come with the 576 (RE-10 or Professionally hand-finished) compare to the Vandoren M13 Lyre-13 that I currently play?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-09-02 01:58
The Ridenour hand finished mouthpieces are very free blowing and can greatly reduce the resistance of the 576.
-Jdbassplayer
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