 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: mcaswell
Date: 2017-08-25 02:59
I'm wanting to help my 4th grader (9 year old) start to learn clarinet. She won't start band at school until 5th grade, but I'd like her to get a bit of a head start.
One thing I'm struggling with is what mouthpiece and reed is good for a small child who is an absolute beginner. What I have available at hand is an M13Lyre, M15, B45, and a Leblanc "Cadenza" that came with a Bliss clarinet.
So, is it better for a beginner to start on a closer tip mouthpiece, or a more open mouthpiece like the B45 (with a lighter reed)?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2017-08-25 03:50
Teachers have different ideas for starting student equipment. These are mine:
I would acquire a $35 Behn Overture or Fobes Debut, something that is acrylic and not hard rubber so it won't chip/fracture if she drops it, but has proper dimensions and works with a wide range of available reeds. I also put on a clear plastic tooth patch (Runyon, Vandoren, or Rico).
I find the Rovner fabric ligatures (the 1R Dark model, ~$20) easier for beginners to use, and they can't crush the reed like they do with the cheap metal ligatures.
I like D'Addario - Rico Mitchell Lurie (regular) at the beginning, strength 2.0. They sound far better than the standard orange box Rico, and play very well straight out of the box without any break-in. A box of ten is not that expensive, and if they are making decent progress they will go on to 2.5/3.0 by the end of the that first year.
From there, they can explore how the other mouthpieces and reeds behave, and determine what their preferences might be.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-08-25 04:14
Fobes Debut all the way. Rovner is a good choice for ligature. I start my beginners on Juno reeds (beginner reeds made by Vandoren). I have them get a three pack of strength 2 and a three pack of strength 2.5. They are usually on 2.5 within 2 to 4 weeks of starting. Reed strength and progression are an important key to developing a good embouchure, and a good appropriate mouthpiece is key to getting a decent sound and pitch from early on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-08-25 05:03
If you didn't already have several mouthpieces at hand, I'd agree with the other posts about Behn or Fobes. But if you already have them, I don't see a reason not to use one of them. My choice for a beginner would be the M13Lyre, but you might have your daughter try the M15, too. I have a personal prejudice against starting with open-tipped mouthpieces like the B series facings (but I never moved to them even after I grew up) and I don't know anything about the Cadenza.
Given the facings on the M13L or M15, I'd start with a #2-1/2 Rico. I'm not very sure the sound quality is meaningfully different at the very beginning regardless of the reed quality. I wouldn't make a strong argument against a #2, but I think chalumeau notes on a too soft reed can give a beginner a false sense of ease and lead to a flabby lack of control that can be hard to correct once it becomes a habit.
I would consider your daughter's first few attempts as a trial. If she takes to it fairly easily, go with it. If it's a struggle (depends on the size of her hands and the ease of producing a tone), you might reconsider whether giving her a "head start" is worth the risk of frustrating her. I've certainly started 4th graders on clarinet - it used to be the norm until they started putting 5th graders into middle schools - but some kids back then weren't ready yet but wanted to start with their age peers. If her age peers aren't starting until next year, there may not be an advantage in the earlier start unless she really takes easily to it and can enjoy the extra year.
kdk (Karl)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2017-08-25 05:59
I would go wit the Fobes Debut. They are inexpensive and play great, better than many mouthpieces that cost much more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-08-25 09:54
I find myself in complete agreement with kdk: Go with the M13 Lyre and the orange-package Rico to get started. This will be an easy setup to get vibrating and won't require a whole lot of air support to deliver a passable sound.
The Rovner 1R ligature is another can't-miss recommendation. They're much less prone to damage compared to a standard 2-screw metal ligature, and come with a big, easy-to-handle plastic cap that's much friendlier to mouthpiece tip rails than a metal cap.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-08-25 17:33
Any good, commonly available MP like the M13 or M13-lyre (be careful, the pitch may be too low) or the Fobes Debut or Hite Premier (local dealer sells zillions of the Hites ... very, very good if you get a good one ...). I'd also pair that with a Legere Classic ... #2.5 to #3.0 or so ... beginners shouldn't have to fight reeds ...
Also, for a little extra loot, the Reserve X0 is amazing for me ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mcaswell
Date: 2017-08-25 18:19
Thank you for all the suggestions. Sounds like the M13 Lyre would work fine, but I may go ahead and order a Forbes anyway. In either case, I need to get her some slightly heavier reeds, as I had picked up a couple of 1.5 Ricos assuming she’d be playing with the more open tip MP.
And Karl, yes... her getting frustrated is definitely a concern I am looking out for, as this particular child is very prone to it. She already reads music well, is a fast learner, and is doing great on piano and violin, but she has difficulty covering the holes on the clarinet. We’ve only played a couple of times, but she doesn’t make good progress on that in the next few sessions, we’ll wait until she grows a bit more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-08-25 18:48
mcaswell wrote:
> And Karl, yes... her getting frustrated is definitely a concern
> I am looking out for, as this particular child is very prone to
> it. She already reads music well, is a fast learner, and is
> doing great on piano and violin, but she has difficulty
> covering the holes on the clarinet. We’ve only played a
> couple of times, but she doesn’t make good progress on that
> in the next few sessions, we’ll wait until she grows a bit
> more.
Ironically, I'm now teaching a girl who sounds like she might have been your daughter's twin - she's the daughter of a former student and she fits your description to a "T" (including the small fingers and poor coverage at the beginning). She's now going into 5th grade and plays really well after a year of study and physical growth. I think one reason her mom called me is that in previous attempts at piano and viola, mother and daughter apparently fought quite a lot over mom's attempts to help daughter.
In fact, we just had a discussion about that - the three of us - last night at her lesson. They're still clashing, especially since mom actually plays clarinet, but since mom already respected me and daughter thinks of me as teacher, not as parent, I can apparently say things to daughter that mom can't. They were both, I think, relieved to hear that, although my wife is a violist, our own three kids (all bright and talented) all studied violin with a very highly respected friend because every time my wife tried to work with any of them it turned into resistance from the child and a lot of friction between them. For some kids it's hard or impossible for them to separate parent from teacher when they inhabit the same body. Kids fighting parents is a natural part of the maturation process and for some kids it doesn't compartmentalize easily.
I'm not at all suggesting that you shouldn't try to do this on your own. Every child is different. But if you see any evidence of the dynamic becoming adversarial, tread lightly, think about an outside teacher or consider waiting until the school program kicks in.
Good luck! Your daughter sounds like a great kid.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mcaswell
Date: 2017-09-02 03:22
Karl,
That describes the situation very accurately! I will indeed tread very lightly. 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-09-02 06:44
I'm soooo DEADLY against Rico/D'Addario reeds, same company. They use pesticides on ALL of their reeds.
Here is a list of some of the other chemicals found on their reeds, some are cancer causing. Dichlorethhyane, benzene, methyl bromide, trimethylbemzene, and even toluene. Plus an assortment of pesticides. WHY??? The company that did this analysis was Atmospheric Analysis & Consulting, INC. Most of you probably have never heard of these chemicals. It doesn't matter. What matters is these should not be on reeds and in the mouths of kids or adults.
Keep these away from kids. As adults you can make the decisions if you wish to play on them yourselves, but don't subject young 9 year old kids to them. It's just WRONG!
I can write this and not get sued because Rico uses pesticides. It's that simple. Do they care? Call them up and ask them.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2017-09-03 02:19
I agree with kdk (Karl) as to the beginner mouthpiece (M13Lyre or M15).
My case: After I developed embouchure dystonia, after some time passed, I decided to start again. I found the Fobes Debut and Behn''s Overture much too resistant for me. Brad went "way out of his way" to reface his beginner mouthpiece a few times, however, it was always too resistant for me.
If I decide to start playing again, I'm going to take kdk's advice and start with the Vandoren M15 with it's close tip opening, long facing and a soft reed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-09-03 09:11
I was just in your shoes this past year. My son was in 4th grade and in his school they start band then. I have been showing him some things, but I can't really "teach" him much because he is resistant to me making him do the boring work. I have a great teacher in mind for him but probably won't start that until I know for sure he wants to continue in middle school. He is pretty good for his age and what I CAN do as a fellow clarinet player, is showing him the proper embouchure, make sure his technique is correct and help him move ahead at his own pace. He is starting 5th knowing how to go across the break, if not perfectly, and able to play pieces they will get to this year.
I did find that the 4C mouthpiece that came with his Yamaha was causing him some trouble, so toward the end of last school year I ordered the Behn Overture, which was an instant improvement. Only $30 and well worth it. I think Fobes Debut is considered equally good, but I haven't tried that one.
Reed-wise we started with Rico but quickly moved to Vandoren. I did order Behn Aria reeds with 1/2 the box for him to try strength 3 (other half for me), but they are slightly stiff for him. I think this year he will get to them when he is playing more regularly that he has this summer.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2017-09-03 17:33
Beginners should, IMHO, start out with the Legere reeds, just to take the reed concern out of the equation, for a while until the student can learn to select and adjust reeds ...
I've found, for me, that the Rico Reserve reeds are "tubby" and unresponsive ... and the use of chemicals on cane scares me ... (I've recently gone to a Vegan diet, trying to eliminate much of the dangerous crap that is added to our daily food ... so far, so good, lab numbers are very encouraging, and cut meds in half, so far ...).
For a mostly trouble-free cane reed, the Pilgerstorfer Dolce works well, and with the MPs I've mentioned. I have no idea if this company uses chemicals ... hope not!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
