 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clrntmaestro
Date: 2015-03-21 20:10
Hello!
I am trying to get my clarinets (Buffet Bb prestige & A Greenline Festival) repaded. The repair technician had mention kangaroo pads which I have never heard of before. I was interested in it but I just wanted to ask if anyone has tried them, and if they would suggest them?
Just a few questions such as, Do they play well? What does it sound like? How's the Intonation?
It would be nice to get some feedback and reviews from people who has tried them!
Thanks!
Mark
M Lai
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-03-21 20:23
I put Roo pads on my Selmer Series 9 and absolutely love them. They seat well and are very quiet. On my instrument, they produce a well rounded, slightly dark tone. They tend to be just slightly thicker than bladder pads, so intonation (within the limits of the particular instrument) is more matter of getting them correctly adjusted.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-03-21 21:55
I have one customer that tried them and had them changed (I did not install them- the installer changed them out for free).
At least some kangaroo pads are porous. You can't get the same seal as with other pad types.
I steer my customers to some of the newer synthetic pads available, though I'm happy to do cork as well. Depending on the specific pad, you can get more projection and the pad will last longer.
That being said, I know that in England, leather pads are used quite a bit. What gets chosen as "the best" is mostly a matter of tradition and teacher influence. Also, if a good repair job is done, the player will be delighted no matter what the pad type (and give more credit to the materials choice than is due).
Steve Ocone
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-03-22 01:43
I tried kangaroo pads. They sealed quite well, but the keys kept jumping up again.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-22 01:57
I actually disagree with the assessment of leather pads as porous in a way the can affect the seal of a horn. I have had (and tried) plenty of leather padded horns that sealed as well as those with cork. Leather pads are also all you'll find throughout Germanic countries as well.
That said, I think I'd avoid the pure synthetics. I have gone down the road on that with my personal horn and find that due to "water adhesion." Water sticks to smooth surfaces MORE, so when the bead of condensation is at the tone hole AND the pad is a smooth piece of plastic, the water adheres MORE causing no sound or a really pronounced gurgle. Absorbent pads diffuse this effect more.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: ned
Date: 2015-03-22 04:55
''I tried kangaroo pads. They sealed quite well, but the keys kept jumping up again.''
There is a song called ''Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport'' written and sung by that man who's name will not be mentioned.
What I'm suggesting Liquorice, is that you tie your keys down instead- it may work. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-03-22 05:14
Inappropriate post
fsbsde@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2015-03-22 05:15)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-03-22 10:29
>> I actually disagree with the assessment of leather pads as porous in a way the can affect the seal of a horn. <<
You can't really generalize like that. A while ago I tested about ten different models of pads from various materials using a mag machine. Only one pad showed porousity and it was the kangaroo leather pad. However...
>> At least some kangaroo pads are porous. <<
Yes, key word being some. According to a former leather "maker" (I forgot the professional term, but it is someone who dries, dies and deals with leather), kangaroo leather is not necessarily more or less porous than other leather.
So it seems to me, based on many different leather pads, that it is the treatment of the pads that makes the difference. The proous kangaroo leather pad I tested seemed like they had less treatment, the face of the pad felt more "natural" (as best as I can describe it). Obviously I can't say for sure, but I would guess it was (at least mainly) the treatment of the leather that made any pad more or less porous.
>> Water sticks to smooth surfaces MORE, so when the bead of condensation is at the tone hole AND the pad is a smooth piece of plastic, the water adheres MORE causing no sound or a really pronounced gurgle. <<
Smoothness is a bit tricky...
Some synthetic pads actually feel like they have more texture on the face when you slide your finger on it than e.g. bladder or cork pads. Cork has some type of fine finish but is very smooth. Leather has "grain" (I think it's called grain? not sure). Bladder is pretty smooth. Goretex/teflon is very smoth.
Anyway what you found is not what I found statistically, from many different clarinets with synthetic pads, which is no worse water clog problem than with any pad. I have found an issue with pads that were porous enough to let water absorb into them.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-03-22 13:51
I've used kangaroo pads on several of my instruments. Once installed, I found them to be no better or worse than double bladder pads, but they were more tricky to fit properly due to their thickness. I wouldn't use them anywhere that the height of the pad cups was less than normal. If the pads to be replaced are thin pads then roo pads might be problematic.
Tony F.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2015-03-22 14:39
Bladder pads will not last as long as leather pads so from repairmens standpoint using bladder pads will create more work and profit in the future than leather which lasts for a long long time.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-22 16:38
Yeah, sorry I did not clarify the point on the synthetic pads. Ok, I have a fully Valentino Masters padded clarinet (ALL the pads). I have found over the course of two years (comparing with leather padded Buffet) that the Masters pads just "block up" more with condensation. Yes, they have a texture, but the important aspect about them is that there is NO absorbency. I think that the absorbing away of some of the moisture (natural material pads: cork, bladder, leather) helps lessen the "water adhesion" problem. And yes, the leather pads I have seen (use) are smooth as glass AND seal tight as a drum.
I can imagine that if a leather pad where made with actual "natural texture" (like a moccasin) they would NOT seal very well at all. So it really comes down to HOW they are made not so much what animal the leather comes from.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-03-22 18:33
Sorry I was not clear. Clarinbass is correct - it is the treatment of the pad that makes a difference. My comments concerned the most popular kangaroo pad on the market. I didn't remember that there are other porous leather pads available (some of which I have!). These are marketed for bassoons. It is standard procedure to treat these pads when installing to make them airtight.
While some absorbency can reduce stickiness and water problems, the trade off is that the moisture that dries on the pad leaves deposits that makes it hard after a while and reduces its lifetime. Not a big deal, just a consideration.
There isn't one point were it can be said that a clarinet seals. Whenever I do a clarinet I have a target in mind (using a Magnehelic gage).
If kangaroo leather pads are giving you the results you want, great.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-03-22 19:06
Kangaroo leather is tougher than kid leather and has a much tighter structure - it's used commercially in the manufacture of motorbike gear due to its excellent scuff resistant properties.
I've been using kangaroo leather pads on saxes for a long time now and so far they're all lasting very well. I haven't had any complaints about them, so from that I can gather everyone whose saxes I've repadded are perfectly happy with them.
I haven't tried them on clarinet as of yet as I still have a reasonable stock of leather pads that I use, plus the fact I use cork pads extensively on clarinets as opposed to skin, leather (only the largest pads in most cases) and synthetics.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kel
Date: 2015-03-22 20:40
In the 1950s the best American football shoes (the ubiquitous black high tops of the era) used kangaroo leather. Very durable.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2015-03-23 07:38
I've used instrumentclinic kangaroo pads on several rebuilds and very pleased with results. They seal extremely well, can get almost double on vacuum test when compare to regular bladder.
Due to better seal the sound comes easier esp pianissimo and the bottom sounds fuller. With respect to intonation it is likely not gonna change more or less as with any rebuild, unless there were some leaks and horn was adjusted to accommodate them.
Tell your tech that you want cork on speaker key. While they are not really sticky, cork is less sticky and makes more sense on register key.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-03-23 07:57
I have Kangaroo pads installed on the lower joint of my clarinets. I don't notice any sealing issues, and they've held up very well over time.
Post Edited (2015-03-23 09:01)
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-08-21 22:53
Regarding the thickness of roopads, much of the thickness is the folded leather behind the pad. It is a simple operation to sand them flat (I wish the vendor would do this) until the y are about 3mm. I've had no problem with this.
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-08-22 06:03
When Mike Hammer replaced some pads on my Yamaha 650 he used Roo pads. He also used Roo pads when he replaced some pads on my Rampone sopranino sax. No complaints so far.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-08-22 10:13
OK I like them on the Yamaha's. Leather pads. The sound is a shade darker. But I changed them to cork on the upper register. I didn't like the feel of them being a shade soft. They sealed just fine. However the cork pads seem to pop off the keys better, you don't feel that sponge effect when pressing down on the keys. Yes I'm being really picky here. I actually like the the sound quality of of cork pads just a shade better. I don't want to go too dark on horns. Soft pad will darken your sound, thus the reason why some sax pads have plastic and metal resonators built into the pads. So I still like cork pads. A real pain to set them and to seal them, but they will last for years and years. You may like the sound better too. A shade crisper, surely not brighter. Now we are getting into those silly words such as the ring, ping, dark and dead, which I want to avoid, because these words are so hard to describe. Therefore they are just meaningless words. You have to actually hear and feel the 2 different setups in a really nice room or hall.
We are splitting hairs here. I did not change the lower joint. I've played with cork pads all of my life so I might be just a tad bit favoring the cork feel and the sound.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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