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 Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Volatile 
Date:   2017-08-12 02:17

When open, should the f/c key and the e key be the same height from their respective holes ? On mine, the f/c key is noticeably lower, maybe 1-2 mm.

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: jdbassplayer 
Date:   2017-08-12 02:54

Do you mean the Ab/Eb key for the right pinky?

As long as you can comfortably play the instrument it's nothing to worry about. The two keys "should" line up but it's often very hard to make things perfect with something as complicated as clarinet keywork. Form follows function.

Edit: disregard, see below.

-Jdbassplayer



Post Edited (2017-08-12 03:20)

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Volatile 
Date:   2017-08-12 03:09

The instrument is a B flat clarinet. The right pinky operates the four keys at the lower joint : f/c, low e/middle b, f#/c# and d#g# . I'm a novice and am thinking if the low e and f/c holes aren't sealed together, as when playing low e or middle b with the left pinky, the tone will suffer, as it does on my instrument.

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: jdbassplayer 
Date:   2017-08-12 03:19

Oh okay. I though you were talking about the level of the touch pieces. Disregard my last comment. Sorry for the confusion. XD

Yes those two keys should absolutely close together. Sounds like a cork may have fallen off of the crows foot. A repairman should be able to solve the problem easily.

-Jdbassplayer

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2017-08-12 10:58

It's not clear what the issue is...

If you are talking about the F/C and E/B keys (i.e. the parts with pads on them) not closing together, meaning one of them is open when you press just the E/B key, then that is out of adjustment. This is what your last post suggests.

Your first post suggests you are talking about the distance between each of those keys (or actually the pads) to its respective tone hole. In that case yes those are not the same for the two keys. Actually they are never the same when open. This is because they need to have essentially the same distance from the holes when they are closed (excluding slight flex in the pads and mechanisms themselves), but they lever from different hinges, so the distance will change at all other positions.

This difference will get larger and larger the more open these keys are i.e. the more you move from the position where they have the same distance (closed). I'm wondering if you are just guesstimating 1mm-2mm? 2mm is much more than it would be. Even 1mm is more than it usually is.

It's possible you have some free play somewhere causing a larger difference than there should be. Either in the start of the motion, the end of the motion (if they don't close together), or both.



Post Edited (2017-08-12 11:08)

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2017-08-12 13:10

The venting of the F/C key pad will naturally be lower than the venting of the E/B key pad - that's perfectly normal due to the different length leverages involved.

Chris.

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Volatile 
Date:   2017-08-12 15:35

Yes, the 1-2 mm was just a guess. There is some play in the left b/e key, and, of course, in the right one. And a lot in the left c key. I've been told the play in the b/e key is normal. This would seem to account for the distance from the pads to the holes being different as the e pad would sit higher and would "catch up " with the f/c key as they both close. Maybe I'm wrong. When I play the middle b ( on the staff) using the left b/e key and while playing press the right c key the tone changes and gets louder. So should there be some play in the b/e key ? The left c key ?

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2017-08-12 18:40

>> I've been told the play in the b/e key is normal. This would seem to account for the distance from the pads to the holes being different as the e pad would sit higher and would "catch up " with the f/c key as they both close. <<

No, there shouldn't be play there (at least no to a noticeable degree) and the E/B key doesn't need to "catch" the F/C key. If there is significant movement (e.g. you can easily see it) of the E/B key and/or the left hand F/C lever before they also move the right hand F/C then it's out of adjustment.

The only difference in height between E/B and F/C when open is the one mentioned in previous posts, as a result of them being on different hinges but need to close at the same time.

>> When I play the middle b (on the staff) using the left b/e key and while playing press the right c key the tone changes and gets louder. <<

Clear sign that they are out of adjustment. You need to be able to play E or B with left hand only without any problems.

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2017-08-12 18:50

Sounds like you could be bending the keys during assembly/disassembly as the F/C touchpiece is prone to being bent through poor handling. So make sure you don't apply any pressure to the F/C touchpiece or apply any upwards force to the E/B touchpiece as a combination of bending one down and the other one up will result in you losing the adjustment so you won't be able to play E/B with just one of your pinkies.

Chris.

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Volatile 
Date:   2017-08-12 20:48

Well, thanks to all who replied. Since I'm retired (71), on a fixed income, no car, and have above average mechanical aptitude, I've decided to learn as much as I can about the instrument by reading and acquiring a cheap Chinese clarinet to practice working on. I have one book on the way, would anyone care to recommend a repair manual ? ls Ebay a good source of parts ?

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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Matt74 
Date:   2017-08-12 20:49

Like the guys are saying, there should be no slop. I think your F/C is leaking when you play E/B. I am guessing that if you close the E/B the F/C will still press down a bit more. Or, if you close both, there may be a tiny gap between the Crowsfoot and the E/B touchpiece.

The right hand F#/C# touchpiece and the right hand E/B touchpiece should both be touching the crowsfoot when they are both up, and when they are both down. They should also be at the same height when they are both up, and when they are both down.

The left hand levers are a wee tiny little smidgen sloppy because of how they move the connected keys on the right. The F/C lever is especially bad. There is also more flex. However, when closed there should be no slop, and you should not need to use your right pinky.

Assuming there is no slop: The E/B pad and the F/C pad can be at different heights, or they can be at the same height. In other words, the venting can be the same or different. The length of the "pad arms" are different, but so are the other mechanics. Depending on how the touchpieces and crowsfoot are set, the pads can close at the same time regardless of the pad heights. If the heights are different, the E/B pad is higher and moves faster. If the heights are the same, they appear to move at the same speed. (I think it depends on the throw of the F/C touchpiece and the position of the crowsfoot. This changes the length of the "controlling lever", which changes how fast or far the "acting lever" moves.)

I usually end up with the E/B being a hair higher, but almost even. I have found it will work with the E/B a lot higher, not that I'm recommending it.

- Matthew Simington


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 Re: Yamaha ycl 250 f/c and e keys
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2017-08-12 22:11

Yamaha factory specs say the E/B pad venting is set to 3.6mm and the F/C pad venting will be 3.2, so there's a 0.4mm difference between them.

Chris.

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