 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-20 09:46
My teacher has told me to wash my reeds and mouthpiece after I finish playing with them. He claims that it prevents the reed from being destroyed by the acidity of the saliva, and he told me it keeps the reed and mouthpiece clean as well.
I have not seen many people washing their reeds and mouthpieces in tap water... in fact, I don't think I have ever seen anyone (other than me) go to the restroom to wash their clarinet reeds/mouthpiece. Or else I would see a storm of students in my honor bands rush to the restroom after rehearsal to wash them. I've only seen a person in an honor band soak the reed in water (like how an oboe player does so) before he puts it on his mouthpiece to play.
Why don't people wash their reeds/mouthpiece after they play? I have to admit my teacher's logic sounds valid. But he might feel its a good thing to do because he started out playing the oboe as his first instrument. Any advice?
Edit: I really mean rinsing them in water, not washing them with soap, sorry for the confusion!
-- Ray Zhang
Post Edited (2017-07-20 19:13)
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-07-20 12:02
While you'll have to accept the fact that saliva gets into your instrument as well, I think you can certainly wash your mouthpiece.
Personally, I like to just wipe off my reed and be done with it - to be honest, I don't see how any reed got destroyed by this so called acidity, rather than just fatiguing from playing and humidity.
Saliva has an pH of only slightly below 7, if you haven't eaten sugars or other carbohbydrates before that is.
The main reason for me is keeping it hygienic: I dont like this "calculus" that builds up over time - I don't run to the bathroom to clean my mouthpiece after one rehearsel, but when I'm at home, I usually clean it after playing. Many people won't ever wash their mouthpieces. The results are both visible and smelly.
While you're at it - please wash your swab from time to time And a soft cloth for cleaning your instrument doesn't hurt, either. The sebum from some people's skin can be quite aggresive, I'm "blessed" with fairly dry hands, yet it's surprising how it can accumulate in certain spots on my instrument.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-20 18:35
It's a good idea for hygienic reasons, but if you don't do it every time you play, experience strongly suggests that everything will be fine. My message is to try to do this, but don't worry if you forget now and then, or don't have the time, or do it a little less frequently than you play.
I believe it is the naturally occurring digestive enzymes in saliva, and perhaps its inherently non sterile environment that might justify washing, particularly reeds, more than saliva ph, but I think we are talking about minute (my-newt) things here that at the High School level of play, that may not yield the infinitesimally small advantages that the virtuosic might seek. Part of the idea is to make a reed last longer. Personally, I have no data, anecdotal or otherwise to strongly support this reed cleaning as essential to reed life. Other players might, and their results may also be swayed by the nature of their saliva.
The soaking of cane oboe reeds has origin in the fact that water softens cane and makes it more flexible/playable for our double reed friends rather than its hygienic component. I too expose [single] reeds (not the butt end) to tap water before and after play at home and clean/dry my mouthpiece more often than not, as sure as I don't do these things at a gig, where, say, outside, running water may not be as accessible, and you know what? Life goes on.
On the other hand, brushing teeth/mouthwashing or rinsing might not be a bad idea if you've recently ate food, or drank something other than water prior to play.
Rinsing out your mouthpiece is helpful too more from a hygienic standpoint I suspect. Be very gentle drying off the rails, tip, table, and window as these highly influence how the mouthpiece plays, and can be easily altered for the worse.
I think that most products which offer reed sterilization promises, even if they keep their word, simply aren't worth the money. Many bboard posters concur.
Why not wet the entire reed? At the molecular level water makes reeds soft because
http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/wood/water_effect.php
the cell walls of the wood, made of cellulose, have a higher chemical affinity for the hydrogen in water than the cellulose's own polymer chains.
At least in theory the process of the reed drying out between play undoes this, minus the reality that all moving parts are subject to wear and tear, including a reed that vibrates so many times in a playing session. Some believe the drying out of the reed in its entirety affects its life, storing their reeds in humidity controlled environments while at rest.
So, as much as people wet the entire reed without incident, why break down the part of the reed that holds the vibrating/business end?
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-20 18:50
Thanks all for your replies. So there is nothing wrong with washing reeds and mouthpiece as long as you don't damage them right? I was starting to wonder if people didn't wash them because it negatively affects the reed or mouthpiece. I felt like I was doing something wrong, just wanted to check.
-- Ray Zhang
Post Edited (2017-07-20 18:51)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-07-20 18:54
zhangray4 wrote:
> But he might
> feel its a good thing to do because he started out playing the
> oboe as his first instrument. Any advice?
>
I don't think I've ever noticed the oboe players (or bassoonists) I work with running to the rest room to wash their reeds, either.
Personally, I have never done more than swab my mouthpiece as I pack up my clarinet after playing. When the calcium deposits build up to a noticeable degree, I soak the beak in a shot glass of vinegar for 20-30 minutes and then wipe and rinse the mouthpiece.
For me, doing a regular washing routine (I assume using soap, since there would be no need for a rest room otherwise) is a little Obsessive-Compulsive, but one player's wisdom is often another's witchcraft. I know players who religiously brush their teeth before they will play a note on their instruments.
None of this can hurt anything, but I see it as over-reaction to problems that are most likely trivial to nonexistent.
Karl
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-20 19:11
Thanks Karl I understand your point. I run to the restroom just to rinse it in water, not with soap. Maybe it's incorrect to say "washing my mouthpiece."
-- Ray Zhang
Post Edited (2017-07-20 19:59)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-07-20 20:17
zhangray4 wrote:
> Thanks Karl I understand your point. I run to the restroom just
> to rinse it in water, not with soap. Maybe it's incorrect to
> say "washing my mouthpiece."
>
In that case, I'm not sure how much cleaner the mouthpiece will be than if you run a swab through it once or twice. Running water won't disinfect - you don't want food workers or medical personnel just rinsing their hands in clear running water before preparing your food or examining you.
To repeat, it won't harm anything. I just wonder if the inconvenience is worth the benefit.
Karl
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-07-20 21:27
kdk wrote:
> In that case, I'm not sure how much cleaner the mouthpiece will
> be than if you run a swab through it once or twice. Running
> water won't disinfect - you don't want food workers or medical
> personnel just rinsing their hands in clear running water
> before preparing your food or examining you.
>
> To repeat, it won't harm anything. I just wonder if the
> inconvenience is worth the benefit.
>
> Karl
I don't know, when working on my patients (I study dentistry) we wear gloves and in accordance to a certain grading, they don't have have to be sterile as we usually don't go further than the mucosa ("semi-critica"l), but our tools have to be disinfected, at least (of course, most are sterile). When working with (intact) skin only, a cleaning is sufficient and disinfection would be optional. I'd not actually require food workes to always disinfect their hands, it's neither necessary nor safer for me, there's a whole lot of different factors entering into this equation. Washing one's hands can often enough be completely sufficient. Same goes for an examination, in fact doctors controlling our work won't always put on gloves when picking up the mouth mirror etc. during an examination.
From a hygienic point of view, no bacterial biofilm can form once your reed and mouthpiece are dried, at least formation is greatly hindered. Other than that, clarinetists will have to accept the fact that they're literally using a tube to spray an (potentially) infectious aerosal around. My point is, we cannot enforce such strict rules and that is not necesarry either. I clean my mouthpiece for other reasons.
As far as enzymes in our saliva are concerned... I've never seen any evidence showing they could "digest" one's reed before it's used up because of other reasons. If saliva could do that, I'd be greatly concerned about my instrument. Acidity, on the other hand, might perhaps be harmful, but I cannot say at which pH or to what extent...
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2017-07-20 21:57
From an Alexander reed brochure discussing how water is better than saliva when breaking in new reeds: "...Saliva alone can break down the fibers as well as not providing enough moisture for the reed." (Emphasis mine)
From Michele Gringras for Rico http://bit.ly/2voeYF8
"Tip 5: Clean Reeds Last Longer: After playing, run your reed under water and gently wipe away excess."
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-20 22:23
Medical sterity, where not only blood and blood products from patients can be exposed, but many surgical instruments are reused is an entirely different animal from the use of ones own music instrument repeatedly, and only that instrument, sharing with no others, and no others sharing with them.
If the instrument and mouthpiece are shared, then certainly hygiene needs to be more meticulous.
https://tinyurl.com/yadp7uwa
Studies have shown that surgical gloves no way produce sterile conditions, just help a lot in strive to reach such an environment. It's one of several reasons why surgeons scrub up prior to procedures.
By no way do I take issue with Ms. Gringras reed rinsing advice, but I do question whether controlled studies have shown such approaches to truly help reeds play well longer, and if so, was it by any statistically significant amount.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-07-20 22:27
Past a certain point of safety, I think this is mostly a personal choice of schedule.
I do not wash my mouthpiece after every time I play...nor my reed. I do, however, wash them whenever I feel they need to be washed...which will vary depending on my usage/whether I have had to play shortly after a meal, etc.
My primary fear of washing every time I play - is that (cumulatively) it increases my chance to nick the tip/rail, drop the mouthpiece, knock it into the faucet, or damage the reed - rendering pointless whether they are clean or not.
I'm also not overly comfortable using public washing areas, as the germs on the surfaces in the public washrooms (or the door handles on the way in/out) might be worse than the germs on my mouthpiece to begin with (at least for me).
Again - I think it is a personal decision.
It's a great question though! You're gathering the information you need so that you can come to the solution that works best for you.
Cheers,
Fuzzy
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-07-20 22:45
fuzzy wrote:
> I'm also not overly comfortable using public washing areas, as
> the germs on the surfaces in the public washrooms (or the door
> handles on the way in/out) might be worse than the germs on my
> mouthpiece to begin with (at least for me).
Well, droplet infection is probably worse. The worst thing that can happen to you is a large number of friends interacting with you in close proximity. I know, right...
Post Edited (2017-07-20 22:47)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-07-21 02:28
Kalashnikirby,
I'll yield to your knowledge on that one...but I did include the caveat of "at least for me" - meaning, that I was already exposed to the germs on my mouthpiece and reed while I was playing - most likely they are my own germs. The germs on the way to the wash facilities are most likely foreign to me. Perhaps I'm still wrong...but that was my intended point.
Cheers!
Fuzzy
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-07-21 03:00
When you consider that you are surrounded by germ-laden aerosols while inhabiting a confined space, the average orchestra pit must be a major biohazard.
Tony F.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-07-21 19:25
Take care of water temperature. Don't use water on your mouthpiece that's much warmer than body temperature or the playing environment. Too hot and you could deform the material.
Don't use boiling water to wash reeds. If the moisture in and between the fibers expands into gas, they will never recover and the reed will be ruined.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-07-21 21:28
Tony F said:
"When you consider that you are surrounded by germ-laden aerosols while inhabiting a confined space, the average orchestra pit must be a major biohazard."
Pits are usually pretty disgusting, particularly the little ones in 'Music Halls' where musicals are presented. I worry more about my health than the health of my mouthpiece and reed. If you're really freaked about this, you should look into synthetic reeds...IMHO, the Signature reeds from Legere are now better than the average reed in a box from d'Addario or Vandoren. Perhaps the best reeds are more interesting, but only for 6-8 hours. I get >100 hours of play from every Legere reed (unless it breaks while I'm trying to wash it!)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-21 22:22
I'm not suggesting anything other than good hygiene in all aspects of life, musical or otherwise, especially the washing of hands.
But that said, clinical studies have shown that there is something to be said about the exposure, particularly of young kids to the very germs of, say, the preschool environment, over staying home at this time of life, as it regards the greater formation of antibodies to fight infection latter in life.
Clearly, this is not one of those, "if 1 pill is good, 2 pills must be twice as good type scenarios." But there is something positive go be said about deliberate limited exposure to viruses and bacteria- much as I advocate--as is the case--the close guarding of things like polio strains, etc. used for research,
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Author: gkern
Date: 2017-07-21 23:40
All I do is swab the mouthpiece, then either wipe it until it appears clean from any debris with either hydrogen peroxide or rubbing alcohol. When I get a (new) used mouthpiece, it gets a vinegar bath before the rubbing alcohol.
Gary K
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-07-22 01:53
I rinse my mouthpiece, but not my reeds. My reeds last for months in rotation and stay pretty new looking. I rinse the mouthpiece each day when I'm done playing if I'm at my studio. If I'm somewhere else I usually don't bother unless there's a sink that's convenient. I do a lemon juice soak when deposits start forming, which tends to happen around the mouthpiece patch. This is how I keep my mouthpieces clean smelling and looking like new. I generally don't touch the facing, rails, or chambers with anything other than water and lemon juice. My main mouthpiece is a customized one by Wadkowski and I hope to stay as happy with it as I have been for many years to come. I don't want to erode it or let it become gross. I also brush my teeth before playing when it's convenient to do so.
Anders
Post Edited (2017-07-22 01:55)
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2017-07-22 21:28
This is a great question.
According to John Mackie (the inventor of a product called ReedJuvinate) his research showed that the combination between the wet/dry cycle and teh various fungus and things are the problem. His device sterilizes the reeds and helps keep them at a consistent humidity at the same time and I have to say I've really enjoyed using it.
You might be interested in listening to the full episode with John, which can be found here: https://clarineat.com/58-reedjuvinate/
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
Post Edited (2017-07-22 21:29)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2017-07-22 23:34
Yes rinse your reed off after playing to get the lip debris off of it and I also use an alcohol swab before rinsing off to kill bacteria which can harm the reed.
Wash your Mouthpiece about once a month or 2 (COLD WATER!!) or whenever you get schmutz on the sides of it where your mouth goes.
Schmutz is the technical term for debris.......
Don't wash your Mouthpiece more than rarely as everytime that you do, you risk dropping it and it breaking.
Your teacher must have OCD to say everytime for the Mouthpiece - ya don't, he's wrong.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2017-07-22 23:36)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-23 02:27
"According to John Mackie (the inventor of a product called ReedJuvinate) his research showed that the combination between the wet/dry cycle and [the] various fungus and things are the problem."
As I often say about so much of the hype that is a large part of the clarinet accessories industry, it is just amazing (sarcasm) how players managed to survive before these things came available.
What research? Does Mr. Mackie disclose his methodology and findings? Are others able to reproduce it?
How many people became less sick? How much longer did reeds last?
Exactly what problem is this device solving?
I am all about good hygiene, but not germophobia. Reeds should not have or even come close to having visible growth appear on or next to them when stored.
Look, maybe there are applications for this among the reed playing immuno-compromised. But the rest of us?
When some product in the reed world comes along that is truly good, beyond the occasional anecdote, and/or with science to back it, word spreads like wildfire. Everyone wants one.
Everyone want a ReedJuvinate?
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