 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-28 20:29
Hi,
I wonder if anyone has experience of Bundy clarinets? I bought 2 on E-Bay but despite having no leaks the both wont play in the clarion rgister and fade and die on the low e.
i have had similar experience with the BH regent and have confined it to the loft!
My cheap new chinese clarinet will play all notes but just sounds awful.
Bundy seems a populat uS instrument used in the Marching season so I am told?
What can you sugest a new MP/Reed combo or is it a waste of time or just me?
Thanks
07469847273
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-28 20:53
Have you had anyone have a good look at it to be sure it's all in good order? Chances are there's a leak or poor regulation causing it not to work, but that can't be diagnosed without seeing it to find out exactly what the problem is (and put it right).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-05-28 20:54
Getting a bit confused here ... why did you buy two Bundys when you already have a B12?
Maybe it is an idea to make a long term plan; what do you really want?
Post Edited (2017-05-29 00:02)
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-29 01:55
I bought the bundys before the B12. I have come from a standing start i.e. no knowledge and have tried to get a good instrument which I am happy with. Being Selmer I thought the bundys would be very good. Now I have the B12 I can see it is a good instrument so will stay with it now.
i still have the bundys so dont want to just keep them in the cupboard or sell a duff instrument on to someone else.
My hope is that they can be fixed but it would probably cost more than the price I paid. i do like the look and feel of them and like the light weight nature and the way the play in the lower register.
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-29 01:59
Thanks Chris,
I could get them looked at but I only paid £30 for each one and it would probably cost more than that to get a pro. to chek/fix them. I suppose my question is how good are Bundys? I s it worth investing in fixing them? I have a nice B12 and can just play that but I dont want to just put them away never to be played again
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-05-29 03:08
My parents bought me a new Selmer Bundy (the one marked "resonite 577") back in fifth grade. They went with whatever the local music store recommended, and since we didn't have a ton to spend that's what I worked with all through junior high. It wasn't terrible, but certainly my students now who I start on the Backun Alpha have it so good they don't even know.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-05-29 03:29
This is only my experience with one horn, but the Bundy I did was a pain. I had a terrible time getting the pads to seal. I think it really needed much softer pads. I tried everything, refacing the tone holes, flattening the pad cups, etc. It seemed ok with my feeler gauge, but with a leak light you could see it wasn't sealing. Besides that, the mechanics felt very different from my R-13, so I was always bumping the wrong keys when I tried to play it. It also played with very low resistance, which I wasn't used to. After I got the pads sealing, I couldn't really play it because all the keys were in different places than I was used to and I was constantly bumping keys and creating leaks. I think I did a good job, but I decided it wasn't worth it...
1. They don't play very well.
2. They have no resale value.
3. They are so different from any good horn I've ever played that I wouldn't give it to a student. They would have to make a huge adjustment when they got a better horn.
I did a Vito that turned out great, a Yamaha, a Selmer, and my R-13. The Bundy was the hardest. Maybe I was trying to get too much out of it, but I think a horn should play great, even if it's not the best acoustically.
FWIW: I liked the Bundy alto saxophone I marched with in H.S.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-05-29 04:24
toffeeman3 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if anyone has experience of Bundy clarinets? I bought
> 2 on E-Bay but despite having no leaks the both wont play in
> the clarion rgister and fade and die on the low e.
My first question is how did you test for leaks? How sure are you that there aren't any?
It seems as if you have two questions. The first is whether or not you can get the Bundy clarinets to play without putting more money into them than you spent. And the answer is almost certainly that you can't, unless the problem is one specific leak that you've missed in each case that suddenly solves the response problems.
The other question is whether or not if you spend whatever it takes to have the Bundys repaired to best possible or even very good condition you will have at least one that is a better clarinet than the B12. In my experience as a teacher, not as a repairer, I think that a good Bundy is a better instrument for an inexperienced player than a B12. This is personal opinion and others' mileage (and experience) may absolutely vary. But you might do well to see what a good repair tech estimates it would cost for him to set up one or both of them and then decide what to do.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-29 16:38
Any used clarinet will cost more to repair than the initial purchase price - that's just a fact of life. Same with used cars - you'll end up sending more money on having them serviced and MOT'd plus buying new tyres, brakes, exhausts and other running costs, so put things into perspective.
A brand new plastic clarinet is around the £450-500 mark, so you can justify having work done on a Bundy bought for £30 - clarinets aren't white goods like toasters and are built specifically so they can be maintained which is part and parcel of playing any musical instrument.
Just because you paid £30, that doesn't mean that's all the clarinet is worth. Get that notion out of your head as that's holding you back.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-29 17:37
Just finally got one of them working. i had the same issue with the pads seating and thought they might be too thick but now all are OK. The result is that it works now.
I find that if is very freeblowing almost no pressure needed to play it in the lower register. Moving to the clarion register needed more pressure and it creats a very loud sound.
The instrument itself is very light which I like and the sound is difficult to describe sort or a resoanting buzzy tone to it which is different.
I had to use my very best reed and mouthpiece to make it works and it seems there is little margin for error when playing it. The left had low e key is in a very strange and low position but practice will help this.
All in all I intend to keep it as there is little resale value and I like the light weight and quirky feel/sound
cheers
John
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-05-29 18:02
I've restored/repadded a fair number of Bundy's. They haven't presented much of a problem and properly set up they play well. Tuning isn't up to orchestral standards, but is more than acceptable for a learner instrument. If you can find one of the old wood Bundy's they can be surprisingly good, but the plastic Bundy's are good too. As Chris P said, don't get caught up with what you paid for them. If you got them for 30 pounds I'd say you got them at a very fair price. If you're finding that it is unduly sensitive when playing, I'd say that you probably still have a leak or an out-of-adjustment bridge mechanism. They were designed for learners to play, so they're pretty well bulletproof when set up right.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-29 18:03
Bundys are typically large bore clarinets with a 15mm (.590") bore like a Selmer Centered Tone. There were some narrow bore Bundy 577 clarinets (with a 14.6mm/.577" bore) which is more like a Selmer Series 10. The majority of Bundys sold in the UK were the large bore ones which are free blowing on account of the large bore.
Only with most entry level clarinets, most only just passed basic quality control when they left the factory and they only got worse when it came to reliability. The mechanics are usually good, but pads and corks failed. These are easily replaced either while under warranty or later on when they get serviced.
But so many end up being neglected as some people think they're uneconomical to repair and they end up stuffed away in cupboards or attics and that's such a waste. They will last a lifetime if they're well maintained and the owner is willing to accept that it will cost them X amount to have them serviced and eventually overhauled - and with them being overhauled (completely rebuilt), they'll have an instrument that's far better finished and far more reliable than if they bought the same one brand new.
This applies to all clarinets - apart from cheap Chinese ones that are indeed 'white goods' as they're not worth doing much with apart from becoming toxic landfill.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-05-29 19:31
edit.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2017-05-29 19:38)
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-05-29 19:36
Attachment: IMG_0118.JPG (111k)
Maybe I should have said, "I was stupid and bought a set of 100 stiff pads that I don't like." It may have been the shallow pad cups, combined with the pads I used, that I had issues with. I am learning.
I think it is always worth repairing.
There is vaue in repairing beyond the bottom line. That one can buy a new whatever-it-is for a similar cost to repairing is not always solid reasoning. For some reason other better arguments are neglected...
It is wasteful to throw away or leave unused a perfectly good whatever-it-is.
It is a good personal habit to repair and maintain.
It's fun to fix things.
It's very satisfying to repair things, no matter who does the actual fixing.
Old stuff is cool.
New is not always better.
That horn was a mess when I got it. The keys were badly bent, the thumb rest was broken, and it had some kind of glue or something on it (at first I thought it was chemically melted). A student is now playing it. I only have an "after" picture.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2017-05-29 19:45)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-29 19:56
Attachment: P4280002.JPG (709k)
Attachment: buescheraristocratclarinet.jpg (29k)
Attached is a photo of a Buescher Aristocrat (Bundy stencil) clarinet that I fully overhauled for its owner who has been playing it since it was new back in the '70s and can't bear to part with it.
And also a Selmer (USA) Signet 100 clarinet whose owner has also owned since the '70s and had bought an R13, but decided this Signet 100 was a much better instrument for what he uses it for. He even had me add a LH Ab/Eb lever to it. I recently fully overhauled that too.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-30 13:07
Hi,
i got the Bundy playing fine but after 10 minutes the low B would not play again and the clarion register was also impossible to play. The reed had jammed and no air would pass through.
I thought it might be the moutpiece or the reed and changed both but the same result. i tried an old buffet WS-B 440 and this worked for a bit longer but still the same result.
What do you think is happeneing because this never happens on my B12 or Yamaha only the Bundy using the same reeds and mouthpiece?
Thanks
JOhn
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-05-30 15:36
Matt74, you are right, except one thing.
Old stuff is not cool, but new stuff is not cool either
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-05-30 18:54
As has been said here, the Bundy is a good trouble-free instrument when properly set up. Yours is not. The only reason for it not to play is a leak or a mis-adjustment.
Tony F.
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-30 20:22
Thanks Tony,
I understand about the leak but can you elaborate more on the mis-ajustment possibilty?
Thanks
John
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-05-31 20:32
There are 3 major areas where maladjustment will affect a clarinet.
1: The adjustment screw on the G# key must be set so that when the A key is pressed there is a slight clearance before the key hits the adjustment screw.
2: The bridging mechanism between the upper and lower joints must be adjusted so that when the rings on the lower joint are pressed the pad immediately above them must close fully and so must the pad controlled by the upper joint section of this mechanism.
2: The crows foot adjustment on the lower joint. This is a complex adjustment, as there is a lot of interaction between keys. There are some good YouTube clips which explain this, just search on crows foot adjustment.
Other than this, the height of the rings above the tone hole chimneys is important and will vary depending on your finger type. Adjusting this can cause problems with the bridge adjustments as there is some interaction. There are other adjustments which can cause problems, but mostly they are easy to work out. Good luck.
Tony F.
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