 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-05-27 05:10
My son has only been playing since September and I have worked with him on good embouchure, breathing, posture and technique. Overall he does quite well but we have been struggling with reeds.
He started on good old Rico 2 for the first month or so. Then I tried him on both Rico Royal 2.5 and Vandoren Blue box 2. He plays a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece on a Yamaha 250 or its predecessor (I bought the instrument used, including the mouthpiece). The Rico Royal 2.5 seems too hard and fuzzy sounding and the Vandorens are often too hard and airy sounding, but when he gets a good one, he has a really nice tone, so we have been sticking with those. I have even tried sanding them, using the ATG to make them a little softer, but there are still more than don't play well than do (Typical Vandoren).
I'm thinking of trying a new mouthpiece for him to see if that helps. I did let him try my old Rick Sayre, but that didn't help a lot and even if he did I am not sending him to elementary school with it!
Separately, I ordered the new Aria reeds to try for myself (4's) and so far I like them a lot! They are as consistent as others have said. All 10 were playable and only two seemed like they might not work out (too soft). They do run softer than Vandorens, but mostly they seem overall much easier to play.
What would you think about me ordering the beginner Behn Overture mouthpiece and Aria 3's for my son? Since they probably are equivalent to a 2.5 in Vandoren would those be too hard strength-wise for that mouthpiece or a relative beginner? At the $25 introductory price the Arias are about the same as Vandorens. Another option would be to just try Vandoren V12 2.5s (the softest strength in that design, but they typically play softer than blue box).
What would you suggest I try next for him?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-05-27 05:31
I'm not at all a fan of the 4C and would suspect the Behn Overture or a Fobes Debut would have to be an improvement. Then, you just have to try different strengths in the Arias and see what works. Brad Behn might be willing to make a sampler pack of #2s and #2.5s if you contact him. It's just hard to know on a more responsive mouthpiece what strength he'll need.
Karl
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-05-27 05:49
On his website the Aria reed strengths begin at 3's. My Aria 4's play somewhere between a V12 3.5 and 3.5+, I would guess, since it has only been two days since I got them. So a 3 would be closer to a 2.5, but they are much more free blowing than V12s, at least to me.
I do have one 4 that feels extra soft. Maybe I'll have him try that on his 4C as well as my old mouthpiece just to gauge how hard that strength is for him to get a sound on.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-05-27 07:04
Musikat wrote:
> I do have one 4 that feels extra soft. Maybe I'll have him try
> that on his 4C as well as my old mouthpiece just to gauge how
> hard that strength is for him to get a sound on.
You can try that, but really you want to know what reed will play for him on the mouthpiece you buy. It really doesn't make much difference how a reed plays on the two you have. And if that reed is uniquely soft-feeling, it won't mean much to find out how it plays on two mouthpieces your son won't be playing on - average #4s will be certainly be too hard.
Yes, the Arias I've tried are freer-feeling than V.12s, which in my book are stuffy in general at any strength. Mitchell Luries, which are still a notch better than plain Ricos and also freer-blowing than V.12s, might be a reed you can temporize with until you know what works on the new mouthpiece. Or, buy a box of #3 Arias and put them away until later if they turn out to be too hard now.
Karl
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-05-27 09:25
Yamaha 4C mouthpieces have a harsher facing curve and rougher feel than Behn Overture or Fobes Debut mouthpieces no matter what reed you use. Both the Behn and the Fobes are fairly reed friendly, easier to blow and easier to voice. I'd say change the mouthpiece first and then find the right reed for the new one. With either a Behn or a Fobes, that shouldn't be hard.
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Author: RAKing
Date: 2017-05-27 18:54
Add one more vote for the Fobes Debut. It is very reed-friendly and allowed me to focus on tone and fingering.
Ron
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-27 20:08
Hi,
The Yamaha is a good starter instrument for your son. There should be no problem with a 4c but I find the Y12 easier to play but it is an old model so maybe you can try e bay?. Moving to a more expesive mouthpiece may not be needed yet because he needs to master how to access every note on the clarinet and improve his embouchre first I would suggest. Then he will be ready to move to a better MP say a Vandoren.
The best reed to use is the normal Rico in my opinion a 2.5 is perfect but start him on a 2 and start to break in the 2.5s over a few days and he will see the difference in the 2.5.
i dont like the Royals and Vandorens seem to chip very easil and are harder to break in. I recommend a reed trimmer if this happens so you can extent the life of the reed
cheers
John
07469847273
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-05-27 20:34
toffeeman3 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Moving
> to a more expesive mouthpiece may not be needed yet because he
> needs to master how to access every note on the clarinet and
> improve his embouchre first I would suggest.
I would argue that a more responsive mouthpiece from the very beginning will make it easier to form good embouchure habits. We don't know what your 4C is like. In my experience (our school district used YCL entry level rental instruments, each of which came with a $C in the case, in our beginner program) they are not particularly consistent and can sometimes be difficult to play on. Compensating for any problem yours may have can cause poor habits to form. So, IMO, getting your son playing on the least expensive known good mouthpiece available can only help and certainly will not impede his progress.
Obviously, when he's developed more control and more awareness of tone quality and responsiveness, a better mouthpiece - whether a Vandoren or any of the other quality mouthpieces on the market - will be a good next step.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-05-27 21:10
Ditto, on the 4C ... I've had several (came with new instruments) and given them away. Harsh.
For least expensive, I vote for the Fobes Debut or Hite Premier ... IMHO, the Hite is better and easier to control with a warmer sound, but less contestant from MP to MP. A good teacher/player should assist in selection. Couple this with a Legere Classic #3 and you have a winner. No fuss, no muss. Easy to play and reliable.
Lately, I have revisted the Reserve X0 with Pilgerstorfer Dolce reeds, and it is doing it for me. So ... I'd give the Reserve MPs a shot ... maybe before considering the Hite or Fobes. Clear, responsive, but with a light woolen sweater pulled over the sound.
A Ridenour Lyrique 576 clarinet with these MPs and you will eliminate 90% of the equipment problems, and the beginner can concentrate on making music and not fighting his setup.
I wish I had such beginner stuff when I got started ... !! Wow, it is so much better than what we had in 1963 ...
Tom
Post Edited (2017-05-27 21:18)
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-05-27 21:37
Great points,
As a relative beginner myself (actually returning after a 40 year gap) I have learnt that a good instrument e.g. Buffet or Yamaha student models are a safe bet.
I am not so well up on MP's but think a 4c is not a disaster to begin with. A 1.5 reed should never be used IMO start with a 2 then build to a 2.5.
I started on a B&H and other new Chinese models but these should be avoided like the plague. I wonder how many new students have been put off from the start by having the wrong instrument or an instrument which is leaking? A lot if the number of these used instruments on the internet and charity shops is to go by.
I wish I had some more advice at the start so making my expensive mistakes could have been avoided
Good luck!
07469847273
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-05-27 21:55
Thanks for all the suggestions. It sounds like the majority opinion is the 4C is a serviceable but not great mouthpiece. Just to clarify, he CAN make a very nice sound using his 4C and Vandoren blue box 2's. The problem is the consistency of the Vandorens, and the Rico's are terrible tone-wise (for him. I have never liked them either). He has a good embouchure (in fact he told me today his band director keeps telling the clarinets to squeeze their mouths tighter and when he does that it makes it harder to play. I told him to listen to me, not her. LOL). For his age, he does recognize immediately the difference in feel and tone and is quite selective about his reeds already.
I ordered him the Behn Overture because I wanedt to order more Arias anyway (a combo box of 3s for him and 4.5s for me to try). And thanks for the reminder about Mitchell Luries. I had forgotten about those. I will also pick some of those up for him to try.
I had posted a separate thread about the Legeres, but have decided I am not going to start him on those just yet. I do want him to get the hang of cane and really understand it and the tone it can produce before trying that. When he gets to marching band age, we'll look into those, though.
Post Edited (2017-05-27 22:03)
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-05-28 01:31
Please keep us posted regarding your impressions regarding the Behn Overture. I've been curious about this mouthpiece.
+1 on the Mitchell Lurie suggestion by kdk. They respond so easily and predictably as to be a great confidence builder for beginning students. Better still, they're so much more consistent than anything from Vandoren. The last couple boxes of Luries I went through had 10 out of 10 good reeds.
The only knock on these continues to be that they don't last very long. This isn't much of a concern for youngsters who chip and crack reeds before they wear out, though.
When it's time to think about marching band gear, the Fibracell synthetic reeds deserve consideration.
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Author: stringguy
Date: 2017-05-29 05:17
Good to know how things have changed since the 60s. Back then we never discussed MPs at all. Reeds came from a dispenser in the band room and that was that! I used a 2.5 and bit a groove into my lower lip.
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