 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-04-30 07:08
Does a 1mm shortening of a barrel equate to roughly a 1Hz raise in the pitch of the tuning A? Say I play at A-440 with a 66mm barrel, will I be at around A-442 with a 64mm barrel of otherwise similar design?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-30 07:42
No. It will have more effect on the throat notes than the notes at the far end of the instrument, especially the tuning A (upper register B on a Bb, C on an A). Pulling out or shortening the barrel won't change the pitch of any clarinet uniformly.
Don't believe the marketing hype that says an instrument is both 440Hz and 442Hz if the only difference is the two different barrel lengths. An instrument built to 440Hz will have the tonehole locations and joint lengths very slightly different to one built to 442Hz.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-04-30 07:55
No. The tuning varies depending on the % of lengthening/shortening for each note.
Just guesstimating from memory, let's say the concert A is about 650mm long. The difference between 440Hz and 442Hz is about 0.45%. Without getting into thing that could affect it slightly, if at 650mm you get A = 440, then you need to shorten it by roughly 0.45%, which is approximately 3.0mm.
This will be very different if you play the short concert A.
To be overly pedantic... the change for the same note from 440 to 441 would be slightly different from the change from 441 to 442 (but it's extremely small and pretty much negligible).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-04-30 13:31
Ok let me phrase my question differently:
If I have been playing at the general pitch level of A-440 with a 66mm barrel, and I need to play at A-442 at the same temperature, with the same mouthpiece and instrument, how much shorter of a barrel should I be looking to buy?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-30 13:56
You'll need an entire clarinet built to 442Hz.
To be honest, you should be able to play up to that pitch on the majority of clarinets provided you're not using a Vandoren "13" Series mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2017-04-30 13:59)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Burt
Date: 2017-04-30 19:01
The difference between 440Hz and 442Hz is less than 8 cents. So if you use your present setup and don't "lip up", you will be less than 8 cents flat throughout your range.
If you use a barrel 1mm shorter, it will raise throat Bb by about 10 cents, and raise low E and B440 by less than 3 cents. I don't think this is a good solution. And a barrel 2mm shorter would make the the throat tones very sharp.
I don't know how a different mouthpiece can raise the pitch uniformly, but I've never tried this, so maybe it can be done.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-04-30 19:53
Chris, then what is the tuning of Tosca and Divine which are claimed to play on both 440 and 442?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-30 21:32
If they're doing the right thing, then they should be built to play at 442Hz at 20°C as it's much easier to flatten a sharp(ish) instrument than sharpen one that plays flat.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2017-05-01 00:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2017-05-01 00:26
In the Univ. of Minn. band, we were instructed that the official pitch was 443Hz and the marching tempo was 144 steps per minute. I must have used a short barrel on my fine Noblet clarinet.
It was far worse when the U of Mich. band joined us on the football field when the two bands were 1/2 step apart in pitch with two different arrangements of the national anthem and there was a terrible pitch clash in public.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-05-01 08:15
It's not just the barrel that I've been complaining about in recent years. Mainly with Buffet tuning to 440 and then the upper register is going flat. about C.
The mouthpiece bores on ALL of the present mouthpieces are simply wrong.
The octave key on the Buffet's is misplaced also causing the upper registers to go flat. As some of you know I've really gotten after Buffet for too large of a bore. This has caused a dead sounding horn, plus out of tune notes. Barrels can't fix this.
If you are serious about tuning your Buffet's I'd suggest sending your horns to Guy Chadash in NYC. It won't be cheap. He will move the octave key, design and sell you a correct adjustable tuning reverse tapered barrel and then you should find an old Chedeville mouthpiece from the 1940's. The total cost will be around $1500. Then you will have a good setup. Without the Chedeville mouthpiece maybe he will charge you around $500 to $700 to get your horn playing well. Undercutting holes, fixing the throat nightmares, tuning the 10ths, and hopefully playing the upper registers at 440 to 441 instead of dropping to 438. This is what that dang misplaced octave key causes. Plus the size of the hole is wrong. The barrels and a good older mouthpiece from the 1960's and earlier will also bring up the pitch. As I've said in other posts mouthpieces and instruments right now are made wrong and we need to stop this. We need to bring back the sounds of the past. Marcellus, Gennusa, and Wright. Yes I left out many of the greats. But you get the idea.
He also makes his own horns and I played them. They are very good at the cost of $5000 each. I went with the Yamaha's for less than 1/2 that cost and made my own mouthpiece.
Guys horns play much better in tune than any Buffet I've played on in recent years. However he can make your Buffet sound and play so much better.
A barrel sadly won't fix the tuning problems. Call Guy in NYC. Google his phone number. He's very smart, but sometimes he doesn't listen well, meaning that he talks a lot and you may have a hard time getting in your words! He just gets excited! Let him talk and he will answer your questions. LMAO But he has the knowledge to turn an average horn into a great horn if the tapers are right in the bores of the horn; not over-sized.
Feel free in sending me an email for more info and perhaps answering your questions. savagesax@aol.com
I will be at the ClarinetFest and like last year if I have time I will measure your mouthpieces, the barrels, the bores, write them down and reface your mouthpiece if the rails are off. No charge. My goal is to MAKE Clarinet playing FUN!!!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
